[greggf]

My perception is that folks prefer to invest in good headphones first, headphone amps second, and sources third. I could be wrong; correct me if so.

I understand the interest in optimizing headphones, but a bad source can absolutely kill good sound. So why isn't source-optimizing more glamorous?

Over in the headphone and headphone amp forums, I see time and time again the more veteran head-fiers having to implore those just getting into the hobby to take the source more seriously..................................

 

[Redo]

For me, my SCD-CE595 makes me happy enough for the time being. I know what I'm missing, as I've used a MicroDAC for a long period of time and have heard other sources. But really, the CE595 is fun enough and full enough for me to be happy with whatever I throw at it (not too far behind the MicroDAC really).

 

[Icarium]

I think the simple reason is that headphones and amps get obsoleted a lot slower than sources. Amps do have that initial price drop but after you buy it a year or two used then you should be able to resell it to close to what you paid for it. I guess that might be true for sources, but also sources are generally more common on the open market (Audiogon and what not).

 

[vcoheda]

buying any audio equipment new is a pretty bad investment.

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif My perception is that folks prefer to invest in good headphones first, headphone amps second, and sources third. I could be wrong; correct me if so. I understand the interest in optimizing headphones, but a bad source can absolutely kill good sound. So why isn't source-optimizing more glamorous? Over in the headphone and headphone amp forums, I see time and time again the more veteran head-fiers having to implore those just getting into the hobby to take the source more seriously..................................

Well like in most avenues of human discourse there are differing opinions. Some folks are very certain that sources have a very critical influence. Some are less convinced that the differences between sources are so important and prefer to concentrate on the transducers.

Some very interesting blind tests have provided evidence that on several occaisions the differences between really modest sources and really esoteric sources are not humanly detectable even by audiophiles and trained listeners.

On the other hand some blind tests do show audible differences between different components. You pays your money and you takes your choice. Further a personal approach is coloured by what you regard the purpose of hifi kit to be. For some the ideal hifi should reproduce accurately what is on the source media, warts and all neither adding or taking away, for others an setup should impose some character on the music, chacon a son gout as they say.

I used to be a source first type, but I am more skeptical these days. Having experimented with numerous entry level sources from $60 to $750 I now use a $60 DVD player as my source and spend more money on music software. For me the hardware is only a means to an end, viz the listening to music bit. As for a bad source killing music, in my opinion it really has to be a very bad source to do that.

 

[vcoheda]

having gone from total bithead > aria > a diyeden > myryad z110 > mini dac > G08 i can absolutely say that source matters, as there was a clear and sometimes significant improvement from one to the other, at least to my ears.

 

[Dept_of_Alchemy]

I'm one of those who subscribe to the transducer>amp>source camp. Since the distortion from headphones is higher than amp and which is in turn higher than the source, it makes sense to me that diminishing return sets in faster in the source which has less room to improve upon compared to the analogue stages.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif My perception is that folks prefer to invest in good headphones first, headphone amps second, and sources third. I could be wrong; correct me if so. I understand the interest in optimizing headphones, but a bad source can absolutely kill good sound. So why isn't source-optimizing more glamorous?

I think there are quite a few proponents of the importance of the source on Head-Fi, and you will often see someone referring to himself as "Team Source First" or something like that. It's just like hciman77 said, there are lots of different opinions.

Personally, finding the right source was a critical step in my efforts to reduce sibilance that can be prevalent when playing digital recordings, so I believe the source is very important in a high end headphone system.

I also believe that the majority of time you hear folks in the headphone forum saying "these headphones are sibilant," the problem is their source, not the phones.

 

[porschemad911]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif buying any audio equipment new is a pretty bad investment.

Haha true, but some gear you just can't get people to part with, especially if you live here Down Under and have different voltage needs!

 

[PFKMan23]

Can't speak for others, but I am of the school of thought that the source does have quite an influence on the resulting sound.

 

[Morph201]

well, having a decent source requires having a 'transparent' amp, and most ____ tend to enjoy syrupy, thick dark sounding amps that mask the sonic improvements of higher end sources.

 

[J-Pak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morph201 /img/forum/go_quote.gif well, having a decent source requires having a 'transparent' amp, and most ____ tend to enjoy syrupy, thick dark sounding amps that mask the sonic improvements of higher end sources.

Really? Most people that know their upper echelon sources seem to have good amps. By this I mean amps that should easily convey the nuances of the source.

I too subscribe to the source first school of thought (obviously after headphones).

 

[003]

Headphones make the biggest difference. The next biggest difference comes from the source and the last thing to make a difference is the amp. This is 100% from personal experience. Not based on ANYTHING I have heard from others.

I now subscribe to believing what I hear personally. Not believing what OTHERS say about how something sounds. And quite frankly I am a lot happier now, and I also am a lot more secure with my own opinions (which I obviously deem to be accurate).

 

[CarbonTi]

The upgrade path for source is quite a bit more expensive than for most headphones and HP amps.

HD650, DT880, K701, RS1 etc are all top-line phones good enough to build a system around and they all only cost around $600 or less. Heck, it's possible to get into a Stax setup for around that amount also. Leaving aside vinyl as a whole 'nother kettle of fish, DAC's or CDP's get into the stratosphere for cost so it takes a bigger bite to upgrade source. My rig is computer source and on the DAC alone I went:

av710 ($25) < RME HD9632 ($600) < Lavry DA10 ($900) < Electro ECD1 ($1200)

I think the jumps are far worse, say for example, up the ladder on Meridien CDP's. And EMM, Esoteric, DCS and some other high-end source are cost wise not even on the radar yet. So I could see how getting amped up on source is not accessible to most, excluding the guys that like to solder things into Zhoulo's. It's easier to swap cords on Senn's and stay interested the hobby that way (Seinfeld-esque "Not that there's any thing wrong with it")

 

[artears]

I also agree on that the headphones make the biggest difference. They change the sound quite dramatically depending on their sound signature. Then comes the source, the amp is important but it also amplifies the bad things. If the input is bad, then the amped result is worse

. Hence, IMO, source is more important than the amp. So far I did not spend too much money on the amps, I only have a Hornet M, but I spent some money on different headphones and sources... Sigh, I guess the next purchase will be an amp... Or another headphone.... Well, maybe both...

BTW, the above thoughts are based on my personal experience, like 003 said, it is not based on anything I have heard from others.