Do Expensive Cables make a difference or is it just Snakeoil.......
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AngryBaconGod

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I'm of the opinion that there's no sonic difference between a "decent" cable and a high end cable. There could be, however, a difference between a flawed cable and a high end cable (or a decent cable, for that matter). As long as the cables are made properly, terminated properly, and use properly manufactured copper, they all sound the same.

TL;DR: "There's a sucker born every minute"
 
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maverickronin

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Quote:
The more interesting question is: Does snake oil make a difference, or is it just expensive cables?

There was actually plenty of snake oil with alcohol and opiates in it so I'd have to say that snake oil does make more of a difference than expensive cables.
 
I'll have to stop calling cables snake oil.  Its a disservice to the snake oil!
 
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music_4321

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Adding a few drops of snake oil to stock cables everyday improves SQ - this has been proved scientifically. However, sonic improvements only become very subtly apparent after 72,000 hrs of burn-in, and a little more noticeable after 194,000 hrs. People who don't have golden ears will only notice better SQ after 724,800 hrs.
 
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Poetik

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Edited.
 
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PanamaRed

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I find it curious that it is usually the "anti-cable" people that are most vocal and defensive on the issue. You'd think it would be the other way around.
 
Worst case scenario? People are stimulating economy.
 
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goodvibes

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Quote:
Those who state cables do inherantly make a difference to sound quality have yet to isolate how that happens. We know how cables work and their properties have been identified since the 19th century. Audiophile cables started to appear in the 1970s and even after 40 years of studies and research there is no electrical property or properties which has been identified as causing sound quality affects.
 
Those who claim a difference rely on the seriously flawed arguement of; I hear a difference, cables are made differently/measure differently, therefore the cable causes the difference. But they cannot prove the link. Meanwhile there is another very good reason as to why cables sound different, placebo.
 
As it stands the cable industry is like the homeopathic medicine industry. The science is lacking, but there is no doubt that many get benefits from the products. So take your pick, is the lack of science or the feel good factor more important to you?


So, because no one can isolate how gravity happens must mean we're all floating into space? The idea that we know how to measure everything is a more seriously flawed argument. Doesn't mean someone needs to believe or not but experience counts and 'no you didn't' and demanding proof of experience by measurement is over the top. You can't prove a negative by lack of physical evidence. Look at the correct Casey Anthony verdict for an example. She's not guilty but hardly innocent.
 
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PanamaRed

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Poetik

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I like cables because they make me feel special.  Mine is silver so it can double as a necklace AND a headphone cable.  Pretty cool huh?
 
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music_4321

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I don't have any issues with people spending hundreds/thousands of dollars on cables - it's their money and they're free to do with it what they see fit. It is the often exaggerated claims made by some members that pushes some innocent members - and not just newbies - to get these products believing they'll find significant improvements in SQ. That I find harder to accept.
 
I personally don't believe cables provide better SQ at all, and my (very) limited experience with 5-6 different cables and 3 different LODs has shown me that.
 
That's all I have to say on the subject.
 
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maverickronin

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Quote:
You might say one person's snake oil is another's audio cable nirvana. Who cares why? It just is.
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Amen to that brother.

That's a particularly poor path to learning or understanding anything at all.  Have fun in your imaginary world of magic.

Quote:
So, because no one can isolate how gravity happens must mean we're all floating into space? The idea that we know how to measure everything is a more seriously flawed argument. Doesn't mean someone needs to believe or not but experience counts and 'no you didn't' and demanding proof of experience by measurement is over the top. You can't prove a negative by lack of physical evidence. Look at the correct Casey Anthony verdict for an example. She's not guilty but hardly innocent.

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start or whether it deserves the "Implied Facepalm" or "Fractal Wrongness".  In case you haven't noticed we can measure gravity very precisely.  Measuring audio beyond the acuity of human hearing is hardly "everything".  You've completely left out properly controlled listing test which find no difference either.  Not attempting to objectively verify something especially prone to cognitive bias is a ticket to believing also sorts of crazy woo if you actually applied those standards of evidence to other things in your life.  You can't ever prove anything outside of mathematics.  In the real world its all about what's probable and supported by evidence.  You seem to be misunderstanding a lot of jurisprudence and due process as well.
 
Of the top of my head, I also notice strawmen, special pleading, and false dichotomies.
 
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tdockweiler

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Here's what you do...you stop listening to what everyone else thinks and just try them out for yourself. This is what I did. I didn't pay a fortune though.
 
I don't think ANY cable could be worth over $200. I doubt there is any way a cable could make say a more than 10% improvement in a headphones sound quality. I think many people just expect too much from cable upgrades or are not properly trained to hear the differences or are unable to hear side by side comparisons. Maybe I'll hear an expensive cable sometime and think it's worth. I doubt it. Right now I've never convinced myself to get one. They're probably making hundreds of dollars off $50 of supplies. I imagine most of the markup is on labor.
 
What I did was make my own cables. I believe in CHEAP cable upgrades. It's fun and easy to do once you get good with a soldering iron.
 
Strange. Every single brand of cable I've tried sounded different with my headphones. ALL of them. I wish this was NOT the case. It'd save me a whole lot of trouble! So far I've tried half a dozen types of cables including Canare, Mogami and Belden. If cables make no difference, I wonder why the Belden made my HD-598 have too forward of mids that caused fatigue? It's something to think about and this is why I switch back to Mogami.
I even had cables effect the soundstage accuracy and size in a headphone (Belden).
 
The primary reason I upgrade my stock cables is that they're mostly junk. The stock HD-598 cable is garbage, so I upgraded it for $5-$10 worth of supplies. Well worth it.
The biggest difference is that cable upgrades for me mostly effect the level of detail and sound clarity. Rarely do they actually change the headphone signature too much from stock. Sometimes, but not always.
 
 
I do think AKG K702 cable upgrades are 100% snake oil. Why? There is still stock wire going from the internal metal band to the driver. I think only when you hard wire it to the driver will anyone probably notice a difference.
 
 
BTW I can't tell the difference really when I use different speaker cable or audio interconnects. I tried about 6 different interconnects and could only notice an improvement or any change in the sound quality with only one...it was the Belden interconnect cable I made for a few dollars. Tiny differences, but enough to stick with that one.
 
Sorry, I do believe some people have bad hearing and could not tell a difference.There I said it. I don't have golden ears, but it's not that hard to tell the difference between headphone cables. It's wrong to just try one cable upgrade and say they make no difference.
 
I just choose to use cheaper cables and make them myself.
 
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PanamaRed

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Have fun in your imaginary world of magic.
 

Says the grown man who watches cartoons.
 
 
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maverickronin

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AngryBaconGod

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Objective experience counts, but not subjective experience. There are ways of observing effects objectively, even if one doesn't want to agree that we understand the cause. However, the wealth of scientific experience wrt measuring electricity as it travels on a cable is quite great at this stage. To claim that we don't understand it enough and that's why we can't measure these subjectively believed improvements is even more ludicious, no matter how many flawed analogies one chooses to bring up in defense.

 
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rawrster

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I would try a cable for yourself and decide based on if you hear any difference
 
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