[rutter]

I'm wondering how much daps affect sound. I'm currently trying a Campfire Audio Solaris iem and without a dap or desktop gear the sound is underwhelming, which I understand. What exactly do daps do that makes them and the iems worthwhile? I'm eyeing the Fiio M11 and am wondering if I should aim higher at the iBasso dx200s or Sony WM1A. Is good dap + good iem sort of a transcendent experience or do you spend $2500 because you're a tool?

 

[Tsukuyomi]

Disclaimer: I'm not a fan of IEMs, I prefer headphones.

Now that thats out of the way, YES DAPs do make a diffirence. I've had the chance to borrow my friends Campfire Andromeda for a weekend. I've owned the FiiO X5 Gen 3, now i own the Astell & Kern SR15. a co-worker of mine owns the Astell & Kern SE100 (he uses it with his Sony M7 IEMs).
I've also had the privilage to demo the Sony ZX300 at an audio meet not too long ago (maybe few months ago, around Jan).

DAPs do make a difference i find, different DAC chips and also different types of amps. I noticed the Andromeda did sound way better with my SR15 and my friends SE100 than on the FiiO X5 Gen 3. the FiiO didnt give enough meat to the IEMs that i got from the SE100, but the mid-range sounded nicer on my SR15 than on the SE100. (I used foam tips, not latex or mem foam)

if you ask me, IEMs do have a price ceiling much sooner than headphones do. and DAPs can only push them so far because you're limited to power output.

I've not had the chance to try the WM1A or DX200s. so I'm sorry i can't give feedback on that point

 

[ProtegeManiac]

IWhat exactly do daps do that makes them and the iems worthwhile?

Flatter response including very low output impedance. You get cleaner sound assuming it isn't a super high sensitivity, too low impedance IEM, in which case, even some DAPs will have audible noise.

I'm wondering how much daps affect sound. I'm currently trying a Campfire Audio Solaris iem and without a dap or desktop gear the sound is underwhelming, which I understand.

So which portable or desktop gear have you heard that IEM with? Likely it just needs a fair bit more clean power than whatever you have them plugged into right now. Or more likely, cleaner power and lower output impedance.

 

[PointyFox]

What ProtegeManiac said. Less noise and lower output impedance. Lower output impedance affects the frequency response less of low impedance headphones. I owned the top DAPs (WM1A, DX200, Opus#2) and sold them because there was no benefit over my ES100.

 

[rutter]

I owned the top DAPs (WM1A, DX200, Opus#2) and sold them because there was no benefit over my ES100.

:/

Sounds like there's very little effect.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

:/

Sounds like there's very little effect.

If the IEM has a sensitivity of 100dB/1mW or lower it might have some effect, more so if the impedance is much higher than 32ohms.

Anything other than that the likely problem you'll have is if the IEM impedance is too low to have a problem with output impedance and it's a dynamic driver (kind of rare) or if the impedance is too low while the sensitivity might be too high (more common), in which case you have to check if anybody has used a specific DAP with a specific IEM first. Otherwise it might not solve the noise issue as some DAPs were tuned for higher gain (just with a very wide volume adjustment so it doesn't go from "almost there" to "TURNITDOWN!!!" with a single step) and higher power output with fullsize headphones to be used as a transportable in mind.

 

[rutter]

What I've been reading from some members is that there is a serious improvement to sound quality, which is what I care about. I'm wondering what exactly and how much.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

What I've been reading from some members is that there is a serious improvement to sound quality, which is what I care about. I'm wondering what exactly and how much.

You have to look into a few things here.

1. Improvements over what, exactly?

2. And for what?

Here's one example of why those questions are important. I got a 120dB/1mW, 32ohm Aurisonics ASG-1.3. Completely sucked on a Samsung Galaxy S3 (T-Mobile): three clicks on + was "almost there," gets to "OMFGTURNITDOWNTURNITDOWNTURNITDOWN!!!" by the fourth click, low end bloated. Firmware update fixed the first problem eventually, no EQ could fix the second. Otherwise the only solution was when I get to work and plug it into my Ibasso D-Zero. Got a review unit Fiio X1: completely obliterated the SGS3. Note 4? No problem - have to get to around 50% volume but zero noise so no problem. If somebody else only had the SGS3 (and the SGS2, that one was the worst) he'd probably be saying "yeah hell yeah DAPs make a hell of a difference! smartphones totally suck!" when using the X1.

I also have a KZ ZST that I use as my beater nowadays, but I use an EQ app to completely shave off 3000hz to 8000hz. I trip the Android loudness warning on it on both my S7 Edge and and my secondary phone for long distance non-internet telephony at receiver end phone, a J7 Prime, which also has noise. Got to borrow an X1 2nd Gen recently. On initial listen: too much power and gain, not a lot of bass. Realized the EQ profile was there on my phones ie it had an impact on perceptible sensitivity for absolute loudness (but not for bass), couldn't replicate the effect on EQ well enough, went back to the phones. On this one even with the markedly lower sensitivity vs my ASG-1.3 the response is an even bigger problem than power, and the Neutralizer app is a better asset than more power.

 

[castleofargh]

I give a practical example of what the impedance relations can do to the signature here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/feedback-about-gears-stop-doing-it-wrong-impedance.866714/
other than that, the Campfire Audio Solaris has stupidly low impedance itself so there is a very real risk for some amplifier sections to struggle and measure/sound rather poorly.
given the sensitivity I'd expect some sources to have audible background hiss, but usually people aren't as paranoid as I am about that.


so to answer your question, you might want to look for a device that's discussed on the forum as having no audible hiss, and one that's known to handle stupidly low impedance well. just to reduce the risks of ending up with subpar fidelity compared to what you could expect from the IEM. I don't know the DAPs you listed, or have only tried some under circumstances that couldn't let me confirm anything. so I'll let others give their advice. ^_^
as to the matter of transcendent experience... I'm bad at this. IMO it's music on IEMs, not a space flight.

 

[PointyFox]

Devices with no audible hiss with Campfire Andromeda: DX90, Galaxy S9, WM1A, OPUS#2, Jotunheim (external DAC) , LCX+SDAC, DX200 (wifi off).

Devices with audible hiss: DX200 (with wifi on), V200, V281.

 

[surfgeorge]

Short answer - YES, a good DAC/Amp makes a huge difference IMO.
It's like in photography - IEM is the camera, DAC/AMp is the lens (or the other way around, doesn't matter)
Great camera with bad lens - bad image
Great lens with bad camera - bad image

But there are few really bad sources, even phones are doing a decent job, so it's not likely you will get bad SQ form using a good IEM with them.

On the other hand I swear by my Chord Mojo DAC/Amp, and it makes the music come alive.
Contrast and microdynamics increase, soundstage opens tremendously, music flows effortlessly, even busy passages stay in focus.
But the difference is different compared to difference between IEMs. You could say more subtle, but also more fundamental.

I paid about €400 for the Mojo, and €300 for my favorite IEMs, the JVC HA-FD02 with Nobunaga Yuuzen cable.
I spent (too much) time last week in Tokyo listenng to many IEMs, and I would not swap my combo for any $1000 IEM if I had to use it out of the phone only.

Cheers!