[Jake2]

Further to this, if you translate this page to English and scroll down a bit (it has a number of their damping products on the one page) you’ll get to the QR-8 10x3mm discs, with some suggestion on their usage. Interestingly they commented that the adhesive /contact surface matters, which was my experience too - some variation between sitting on fo.Q, graphite foil or direct on aluminium chassis. Might have to try some light tack spray like I’ve used on some of my SH-22K fo.Q sheets, definitely improved their potency.

https://acousticrevive.jp/portfolio-item/insulatorspike-receptacleresonator/

 

[zanash]

Could you post a picture of the copper/RFI setup in your ground box please?

this is a poor pic ...but the only one I have.
the silver gold fabric [anti rfi/emi fabric] is sitting in and lining the box. The copper foils are then bent to fit, and are the connected to the ground connection on the rca socket. I carefully filled each chamber with the mineral mix, not as easy as it sounds as the copper foils are delicate.

 

[MattSPL]

this is a poor pic ...but the only one I have.
the silver gold fabric [anti rfi/emi fabric] is sitting in and lining the box. The copper foils are then bent to fit, and are the connected to the ground connection on the rca socket. I carefully filled each chamber with the mineral mix, not as easy as it sounds as the copper foils are delicate.

Looks good. Have you tried without the fabric to see if it’s best with or without?

 

[cdacosta]

When I visit this thread, I can see many more visiting this thread. With this in mind I wanted to mention the following. Regarding passive ground boxes, they can be finicky. Meaning assuming a good install location, every aspect of the build effects what is heard through the system. Even when only filtering one component in the system. I recommend experimentation. Even a small change in the build can make a big audible change. Whether the change is system tonality balance, how effective it is in lowering noise, body or warmth, PRaT, etc.

Here is an example. Most of these Chinese designs from say Aliexpress that have thin (or varying thickness) copper shielding on the insides of the ground boxes. In all my testing, this shielding negatively effects the performance of the system vs without the copper shielding. So what I am trying to say here is one must try varying versions and compare to "really" know and understand the cause and effect. The passive ground box "is not" rocket science but what would make sense in a specific application often does not give the results as would be expected. I personally was surprised almost daily during the near year long experimenting with ground box design, cable and tweaking. That is what kept me continuously trying different concepts or changes to see what if? Just sharing a thought.

 

[zanash]

Looks good. Have you tried without the fabric to see if it’s best with or without?

my first was without........this is significantly better , but its 150% bigger and has copper plates.

so too many variables !

I would deffer to cdacosta 's wisdom

 

[Boodle]

When I visit this thread, I can see many more visiting this thread. With this in mind I wanted to mention the following. Regarding passive ground boxes, they can be finicky. Meaning assuming a good install location, every aspect of the build effects what is heard through the system. Even when only filtering one component in the system. I recommend experimentation. Even a small change in the build can make a big audible change. Whether the change is system tonality balance, how effective it is in lowering noise, body or warmth, PRaT, etc.

Here is an example. Most of these Chinese designs from say Aliexpress that have thin (or varying thickness) copper shielding on the insides of the ground boxes. In all my testing, this shielding negatively effects the performance of the system vs without the copper shielding. So what I am trying to say here is one must try varying versions and compare to "really" know and understand the cause and effect. The passive ground box "is not" rocket science but what would make sense in a specific application often does not give the results as would be expected. I personally was surprised almost daily during the near year long experimenting with ground box design, cable and tweaking. That is what kept me continuously trying different concepts or changes to see what if? Just sharing a thought.

For CDcosta.
I need your kind help and guidance on 2 issues:
1. Modding the AE Odin Gold xlr to attach a ground box cable - I modded this xlr cable with Eizz Female xlr plugs but couldn’t fit the 14 gauge 6n AE cable together with the 3 earth cores on the Odin so I used a 18 gauge Neotech OCC cable. Result, a bit disappointing. Top end sparkle and clarity has disappeared. So maybe the Neotech cable is not suitable or maybe needs burn in? Alternatively, is there a way to attach the AE 6n cable. Stripping the Odin Gold sheath and individual strands is a pain.
2. I made a second Ground Box - smaller than my first one. This one is from Amazon US the same size used by you and others. This could take only 2 kg of mix. I used a mix natural magnetite 500gm and synthetic magnetite1.3 kg, plus graphite 50gm, tourmaline powder about 100gm, rochelle salt 50 gm, himalayan rock salt about 100gm, shunghite chips 30 gm, tourmaline chips 50 gm, - sound with the modded xlr after 12 hours continuous play, not good at all. Reduced highs, lower midrange prominence, imaging not great. So where have I gone wrong. My suspicion is the synthetic magnetite maybe not good for ground boxes. I went back to my first ground box 3.5 kg ( natural magnetite) and it is much better with the modded Odin xlr, but still not great.
Your thoughts would be most helpful.
Thanks

 

[cdacosta]

For CDcosta.
I need your kind help and guidance on 2 issues:
1. Modding the AE Odin Gold xlr to attach a ground box cable - I modded this xlr cable with Eizz Female xlr plugs but couldn’t fit the 14 gauge 6n AE cable together with the 3 earth cores on the Odin so I used a 18 gauge Neotech OCC cable. Result, a bit disappointing. Top end sparkle and clarity has disappeared. So maybe the Neotech cable is not suitable or maybe needs burn in? Alternatively, is there a way to attach the AE 6n cable. Stripping the Odin Gold sheath and individual strands is a pain.
2. I made a second Ground Box - smaller than my first one. This one is from Amazon US the same size used by you and others. This could take only 2 kg of mix. I used a mix natural magnetite 500gm and synthetic magnetite1.3 kg, plus graphite 50gm, tourmaline powder about 100gm, rochelle salt 50 gm, himalayan rock salt about 100gm, shunghite chips 30 gm, tourmaline chips 50 gm, - sound with the modded xlr after 12 hours continuous play, not good at all. Reduced highs, lower midrange prominence, imaging not great. So where have I gone wrong. My suspicion is the synthetic magnetite maybe not good for ground boxes. I went back to my first ground box 3.5 kg ( natural magnetite) and it is much better with the modded Odin xlr, but still not great.
Your thoughts would be most helpful.
Thanks

Sure, I will try to help. My initial thoughts are:

1) Yes the 6N 14ga. (single leg) will sound better than the Neotech 18ga. The Neotech is thinner (less body weight) sounding than the 6N 14ga., not as balanced. But top end is not rolled off, so there may be more to it than just the wire.

2) Never tried the Synthetic Magnetite as ground box mineral, so do not what that sounds like.

3) If the Odin Gold balanced interconnects sounded good before the mod and sounds worse after, something is definitely wrong.

I have a whole slew of questions. But to diagnose what I think you are telling me, I need a baseline to work off of. Lets start with these questions:

1) Were you happy with the Odin Gold cables before the mod?

2) Which pin on the XLR did you wire the ground cable to? Should be shield, pin 1.

3) When you wired/installed the conductors from the Odin Gold cable to the Eizz connector, did you make sure the conductors were touching the connector?

4) Did you use Furutech Nano Liquid in the cable build?

5) How is the cable attached to ground box?

6) Lets focus on the Magnetite ground box because I know the design well. Tell me about the construction, the mix, footers, binding post used, enclosure material, shielding, no shielding, etc, etc.?

 

[cdacosta]

I would like to make a comment for anyone that has or is planning to DIY 1 or more ground boxes. They look like a very simple device. But for optimal performance of these devices, attention to construction detail is very important. Any change to the design effects what is "heard" through the audio system. This blew my mind and sent me on a year long journey experimenting.

There are a few details I have never touched on because I cannot prove it. One is during operation, meaning while the system is on and the devices are filtering, the minerals are vibrating. I can physically feel the vibration. I think this is one of the reasons the pine wood box works for this application as an enclosure. Entreq I am sure went to extreme lengths to test this. Likely the reason why they use wood for enclosure material. When I experimented with different walled materials inside the wood enclosure, what is heard is not as natural compared to the wood by itself. CAD uses acrylic. I want to try acrylic but cannot find a reasonable source. Once I buy another home and have a work shop again, I will experiment further.

My suggestion for those not "very familiar" with building passive ground boxes, for your first box follow my recipe exactly. Once you have a baseline then experiment. Also slight adjustments like how much of any mineral used, will change the sonic presentation of the system. This is the tuning part. Shungite adds presentation body weight but too much Shungite will dampen the top end frequencies. But, to an extent this can be balanced out with Rochelle salt and rock salt. Easier for the beginner builder to just remove a little of the Shungite and listen. The more experienced builder (after knowing how the different minerals effect sonic reproduction) will have a better understanding how to balance with other minerals. After building a few ground boxes, this knowledge comes.

 

[Boodle]

Sure, I will try to help. My initial thoughts are:

1) Yes the 6N 14ga. (single leg) will sound better than the Neotech 18ga. The Neotech is thinner (less body weight) sounding than the 6N 14ga., not as balanced. But top end is not rolled off, so there may be more to it than just the wire.

2) Never tried the Synthetic Magnetite as ground box mineral, so do not what that sounds like.

3) If the Odin Gold balanced interconnects sounded good before the mod and sounds worse after, something is definitely wrong.

I have a whole slew of questions. But to diagnose what I think you are telling me, I need a baseline to work off of. Lets start with these questions:

1) Were you happy with the Odin Gold cables before the mod?

2) Which pin on the XLR did you wire the ground cable to? Should be shield, pin 1.

3) When you wired/installed the conductors from the Odin Gold cable to the Eizz connector, did you make sure the conductors were touching the connector?

4) Did you use Furutech Nano Liquid in the cable build?

5) How is the cable attached to ground box?

6) Lets focus on the Magnetite ground box because I know the design well. Tell me about the construction, the mix, footers, binding post used, enclosure material, shielding, no shielding, etc, etc.?

Thanks for your response.
1. The Odin Gold xlr replaced a Transparent Audio Super MM from pre to power amp. The Odin sounded pretty good, better than the TA super before the mod. The GB cable is attached to pin 1 together with 3 Odin cores. There are 2 cores on pin 2 and 3 cores on pin3, this is how it was wired before the mod. I did not use nano liquid inside the xlr connections. The GB cable is attached to the GB as bare wire to the banana terminal as per my first GB constructed as before - internal 3 runs of 14 ga AE 6n each cable fully unfurled and attached to the banana plug with hex bolt after little nano liquid on the cable end and connector end. Today, it is sounding much better after I placed the new GB on top of the first GB which is sitting on 3 symposium roller block jr with grade 10 tungsten balls. My initial assessment was with the new GB placed on its own without any footer. The sound now is acceptable but I am sure you are correct in your assessment that the Neotech 18 ga cable is inferior to the AE 14 ga 6n. It is sounding clean but with a lack of body and mass and reduced bass power. So I will re terminate the xlr plugs with 14ga AE cable. Only issue is how to get it into the xlr connector with 3 odin cores? Any suggestions?
2. The new GB is constructed in the same way as the first GB but is smaller approx 2.2 kg, the first was 3.3 kg. I forgot to mention that I also used tungsten powder approx 30 gm. A messy alternative would be to get a bigger box and empty the contents into it with additional natural magnetite, but that maybe a last resort option.
Thanks for your help. I think the first step is to re terminate the Odin xlr and see if it has a big impact. What is clear is that siting the GB on top of symposium roller blocks has a huge impact.
Thanks again.

 

[cdacosta]

Thanks for your response.
1. The Odin Gold xlr replaced a Transparent Audio Super MM from pre to power amp. The Odin sounded pretty good, better than the TA super before the mod. The GB cable is attached to pin 1 together with 3 Odin cores. There are 2 cores on pin 2 and 3 cores on pin3, this is how it was wired before the mod. I did not use nano liquid inside the xlr connections. The GB cable is attached to the GB as bare wire to the banana terminal as per my first GB constructed as before - internal 3 runs of 14 ga AE 6n each cable fully unfurled and attached to the banana plug with hex bolt after little nano liquid on the cable end and connector end. Today, it is sounding much better after I placed the new GB on top of the first GB which is sitting on 3 symposium roller block jr with grade 10 tungsten balls. My initial assessment was with the new GB placed on its own without any footer. The sound now is acceptable but I am sure you are correct in your assessment that the Neotech 18 ga cable is inferior to the AE 14 ga 6n. It is sounding clean but with a lack of body and mass and reduced bass power. So I will re terminate the xlr plugs with 14ga AE cable. Only issue is how to get it into the xlr connector with 3 odin cores? Any suggestions?
2. The new GB is constructed in the same way as the first GB but is smaller approx 2.2 kg, the first was 3.3 kg. I forgot to mention that I also used tungsten powder approx 30 gm. A messy alternative would be to get a bigger box and empty the contents into it with additional natural magnetite, but that maybe a last resort option.
Thanks for your help. I think the first step is to re terminate the Odin xlr and see if it has a big impact. What is clear is that siting the GB on top of symposium roller blocks has a huge impact.
Thanks again.

Here are my suggestions and comments, this is assuming you want the "best" possible performance...

1) Since you have Nano Liquid, use it on "all" mechanical connections with your ground cable build and at the Eizz connections and conductors. Trust me on this. And yes, this would be the first thing I would do next.

2) If you cannot fit all of the 14ga. (19 conductors) into the Eizz connector "fit as many as you can". So this may mean 14 or 15 of the conductors. You will be snipping off the conductors that do not fit just before it enters the Eizz connector. I am assuming you are adding a ground cable to both channels (L & R) of the Odin Gold XLR interconnects. If not, do so.

3) Yep, the footers matter. I am familiar with the Symposium roller blocks, I have a set in storage. These roller blocks are coupling footers. The ground boxes may benefit from the micro vibration dissipation these roller blocks offer but usually they sound better when de-coupled vs coupled to the surface they sit on. If I were you I would experiment further. These roller blocks are not cheap, so if you can find a de-coupling alternative that is cheaper (especially if already on hand), would be a bonus. By experimenting or trying coupling vs de-coupling footers, will give you further insight as to the effect of footers on ground boxes.

4) The synthetic Magnetite is super messy, I would not bother moving it to another enclosure. But I cannot hear how that mix effects your system. This mod when implemented properly should "greatly enhance" the the performance of the Odin Gold cables and sonic experience of your system. So I can tell something is wrong. Three other alternatives:

a) Use this smaller synthetic Magnetite mixed box as a volume enhancement ground box. Meaning you have another larger 3.5kg natural Magnetite box as the main box. The main box will have two 5-way binding posts (see below for one binding post option). One binding post has a 12" or so 11ga (twisted dual 14ga 6N OCC) jumping to the Synthetic box. This will end up giving you a 5kg or so total weight between the two. This would be an interesting experiment for you. I have done it and the secondary box does have a sonic effect. Both Entreq and CAD suggest this alternative with more mass/heavier components. If adding as the secondary adds nothing or very little just do not use the secondary for this application. Also an alternative to two binding posts is one binding post that will support a banana (for one channel), spade (for other channel) and when you clamp down onto the spade you insert a low mass spade (jumper cable to smaller synthetic box).

b) Two boxes, one channel to one box and the second channel to the other box.

c) Repurpose the smaller synthetic Magnetite box and make a 3kg+ one with natural magnetite and copper binding post (2 connections/ground cables) for this application.

NOTE: I keep referring to a binding post because it is the most flexible for alternative applications. Also if ground cable is directly wired to the binding post or if spade is used will offer the "best and most contact". Use the purist copper binding post as possible. No bolting or soldering of connections inside the enclosure where the internal conductors mate with the binding post. You want a solderless binding post so the internal box conductors have direct connection to the binding post. Use Nano Liquid inside the box, where the conductors mate with binding post, and externally from ground cable to binding post. We want the best contact and transfer of electrical signal as possible here. Yes, you can hear the difference. Again LOL, trust me on this.

 

[Boodle]

Here are my suggestions and comments, this is assuming you want the "best" possible performance...

1) Since you have Nano Liquid, use it on "all" mechanical connections with your ground cable build and at the Eizz connections and conductors. Trust me on this. And yes, this would be the first thing I would do next.

2) If you cannot fit all of the 14ga. (19 conductors) into the Eizz connector "fit as many as you can". So this may mean 14 or 15 of the conductors. You will be snipping off the conductors that do not fit just before it enters the Eizz connector. I am assuming you are adding a ground cable to both channels (L & R) of the Odin Gold XLR interconnects. If not, do so.

3) Yep, the footers matter. I am familiar with the Symposium roller blocks, I have a set in storage. These roller blocks are coupling footers. The ground boxes may benefit from the micro vibration dissipation these roller blocks offer but usually they sound better when de-coupled vs coupled to the surface they sit on. If I were you I would experiment further. These roller blocks are not cheap, so if you can find a de-coupling alternative that is cheaper (especially if already on hand), would be a bonus. By experimenting or trying coupling vs de-coupling footers, will give you further insight as to the effect of footers on ground boxes.

4) The synthetic Magnetite is super messy, I would not bother moving it to another enclosure. But I cannot hear how that mix effects your system. This mod when implemented properly should "greatly enhance" the the performance of the Odin Gold cables and sonic experience of your system. So I can tell something is wrong. Three other alternatives:

a) Use this smaller synthetic Magnetite mixed box as a volume enhancement ground box. Meaning you have another larger 3.5kg natural Magnetite box as the main box. The main box will have two 5-way binding posts (see below for one binding post option). One binding post has a 12" or so 11ga (twisted dual 14ga 6N OCC) jumping to the Synthetic box. This will end up giving you a 5kg or so total weight between the two. This would be an interesting experiment for you. I have done it and the secondary box does have a sonic effect. Both Entreq and CAD suggest this alternative with more mass/heavier components. If adding as the secondary adds nothing or very little just do not use the secondary for this application. Also an alternative to two binding posts is one binding post that will support a banana (for one channel), spade (for other channel) and when you clamp down onto the spade you insert a low mass spade (jumper cable to smaller synthetic box).

b) Two boxes, one channel to one box and the second channel to the other box.

c) Repurpose the smaller synthetic Magnetite box and make a 3kg+ one with natural magnetite and copper binding post (2 connections/ground cables) for this application.

NOTE: I keep referring to a binding post because it is the most flexible for alternative applications. Also if ground cable is directly wired to the binding post or if spade is used will offer the "best and most contact". Use the purist copper binding post as possible. No bolting or soldering of connections inside the enclosure where the internal conductors mate with the binding post. You want a solderless binding post so the internal box conductors have direct connection to the binding post. Use Nano Liquid inside the box, where the conductors mate with binding post, and externally from ground cable to binding post. We want the best contact and transfer of electrical signal as possible here. Yes, you can hear the difference. Again LOL, trust me on this.

Thank you for your guidance. Lots of good advice to work through. I will start with the re termination of the Odin xlr with 14 ga and nano liquid. Next step will be to try and piggyback the ground boxes. This evening the new ground box is not sounding bad, seems to have settled and maybe the Neotech cable has opened up it seems. Will report back after the changes.
Thanks again.

 

[cdacosta]

Thank you for your guidance. Lots of good advice to work through. I will start with the re termination of the Odin xlr with 14 ga and nano liquid. Next step will be to try and piggyback the ground boxes. This evening the new ground box is not sounding bad, seems to have settled and maybe the Neotech cable has opened up it seems. Will report back after the changes.
Thanks again.

You mention "not sounding bad". Try and strive for amazing. A lot to be learned while experimenting and making changes.

 

[cdacosta]

White natural quartz, I got some and spent maybe a couple of hours so far placing it around different locations in my headphone system. This is what I purchased:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081GC1SG6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

Inexpensive and has an interesting effect. Would or can be used as a tuning tool. The effects in the places I mention below are very audible. I will note how much the audible effect is. Which means I will spend more time experimenting and exploring possible uses. Keep in mind my system is really tuned and it is easy to hear any adjustments or changes. All testing is while the system is playing so I can hear the changes (if any) in real time.

* Five of the small chips on top of a single ground box mix. This ground box has a ground cable going to the BNC digital input of the DAC and also supports the ground cable that is filtering the output of the SPDIF output of PC. Just un-screwed the bolt that holds the lid in place, slid the lid open and placed about 8 of the chips to start. Then removed them one at a time until I liked what I heard. Any more and the system presentation on the top end starts to tilt toward neutral, which I do not want. Easy to overdue so one has to listen carefully. Have not tried it on any of the other 11 ground boxes yet.

The effect I settled on opens up what sounds like 6K and up frequencies. Very much like changing a single pure copper connector to a Rhodium plated version after plating burn-in. The top end frequencies get a sprinkle of precision and extension. Very obvious sonically.

* On top of component transformers. Like the included amp pictured. If less is used or placed under the component/transformer the effect is less. Too much used and becomes over done and throws frequency balance off. The small ABS plastic box you see pictured on top of the amp is filled with the white crystals. The size of that ABS box is 3.75" long x 1" high x 2.25" wide. I doubt it matters much but I did install small round silicon footers on the bottom of the ABS box.

The effect is increased lower frequency slam. The pressure level increase from say a 10" sub to a 12" sub. My setup is already tuned (via EQ) to hit hard in the bass or sub bass frequencies. This took the system from a 8 to a 9 with regard to bass slam. The same thing happened when I placed that same ABS box above the toroidal transformer of the DAC. I tried placing some white crystals in a bag and laying it on top of one of the balanced power supply units, right above the transformer. Kind of same effect but in my system the bass is already tuned, so above the amp is all was needed to give it that additional push without effecting any other frequencies.

* Small amount or 1/3 the size of a small bag like used with Rochelle salt AC line tweak. Laying over the top of the iFi SPDIF iPurifier2 or where the SPDIF cable installs into this DDC. This DDC is plugged into the DAC. Sounded good like this, did not play with volume of crystals used yet.

The effect sonically is hard to explain. Across the frequency spectrum, the outline or edges of notes were a bit more defined. A tad more precision?

So far these are the best uses I have found. Pretty good for $13. Will be interesting to know how the system settles to these changes.

 

[kenincalgary]

"The effect sonically is hard to explain. Across the frequency spectrum, the outline or edges of notes were a bit more defined. A tad more precision?"
This is what I hear with the crystal in the fridge.

 

[cdacosta]

"The effect sonically is hard to explain. Across the frequency spectrum, the outline or edges of notes were a bit more defined. A tad more precision?"
This is what I hear with the crystal in the fridge.

My wife will think I lost it, but will try in the fridge. Cannot wrap my mind around how this would do anything. Was the difference heard immediate or?