[wlai]

Over at the DIY forum on Headwise is alot of activity on amp designs that I haven't seen reviewed over here. This post in particular list all the of the amps that one can build/have built for you:

http://headwize.com/ubb/showpage.php?fnum=3&tid=6339

I'm wondering if anyone has done comparisons of these amps to Xin, RSA, or other reputable commercial amps. I've seen some references to Miller Hybrid, and there is a SOHA thread, but usually it's the CMOY stuff that makes the news here. And I don't think I've seen very serious head-to-head reviews of the sort that gets so much thumbs-up around here.

Some of it I suspect has to do with the variability of a kit amp, built by different people, all using different variants of resistors/capatiors. And I believe that the specific component matter, but surely the design itself has more influence than which specific brand of capacitor is used, and is worth a serious look for those with access to them.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wlai /img/forum/go_quote.gif Over at the DIY forum on Headwise is alot of activity on amp designs that I haven't seen reviewed over here. This post in particular list all the of the amps that one can build/have built for you: http://headwize.com/ubb/showpage.php?fnum=3&tid=6339 I'm wondering if anyone has done comparisons of these amps to Xin, RSA, or other reputable commercial amps. I've seen some references to Miller Hybrid, and there is a SOHA thread, but usually it's the CMOY stuff that makes the news here. And I don't think I've seen very serious head-to-head reviews of the sort that gets so much thumbs-up around here. Some of it I suspect has to do with the variability of a kit amp, built by different people, all using different variants of resistors/capatiors. And I believe that the specific component matter, but surely the design itself has more influence than which specific brand of capacitor is used, and is worth a serious look for those with access to them.

IMO nowadays if you want to go the DIY route, and do your own amp, case it properly, and do a nice front panel, with proper engravings, etc...and get enouhg parts for matching, etc....you will not save too much over a good commercial and reputable amp, and the difference in sound will not be that big...
I have heard a few DIY amps, and own a couple of them, and I have heard mostly what is in the market, and honestly there is no need of going the DIY route if you can afford to get a comercial amp, or maybe get it used for cheap...unless you already own all the parts, and have na stock of them...

Those prices you see there, are for "basic amps", in hammond cases with commercial Wallwarts, or in tin cases and the like, a good nice custom case, and good PSU, cost money. Add the front panel, more tha 60.00 a piece, and if you do two, one for front and one for the back, you have 100.00 or more extra...the better you want it look, the more you will spend on that...my PPA is right now around the $700.00 mark between upgrades and front panel, chips, diamond boards, silver wire, case, etc....

 

[phergus_25]

I think that one nice thing about DIY is that you dont have to have a nice front, fancy knobs, and all taht kind of stuff. DIY lets you be just concentrated on the sound, if thats what you want.
One thing is tho that you can choose from so many parts that an amp can cost $300 or $600, same design, so its hard to compare them as a design.
-greg

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phergus_25 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think that one nice thing about DIY is that you dont have to have a nice front, fancy knobs, and all taht kind of stuff. DIY lets you be just concentrated on the sound, if thats what you want. One thing is tho that you can choose from so many parts that an amp can cost $300 or $600, same design, so its hard to compare them as a design. -greg

That is right, I think that I chose the wrong route at that time, then.....

 

[Uncle Erik]

There is still a lot to be said for DIY, however.

There's no need to spend huge amounts on cases. For commercial offerings, you can get a nice Par-Metal for $35-$70 or so (depending on size) and I've repurposed a few $5-$10 cases I've picked up at hamfests and junk stores. Also, it's not difficult to build a decent tube headphone amp for $250-$300. Granted, that's not with the silver wire, boutique resistors and caps, et al. However, you can use very high quality parts and get excellent sound.

As for engraving panels... do you really need labels to determine which is the headphone jack, power switch and volume knob? Sure, it looks nice, but necessary it isn't.

Also, when you build it yourself, the amp is always in warranty. You'll be able to fix anything that goes wrong.

But most of all, you'll understand it. As MasterCard would say, that's priceless.

 

[kramer5150]

YGPM

 

[kramer5150]

oops

 

[wlai]

Thanks for the thoughts on this. I'm interested in the DIY forum because

a) You get to see the evolution of a design or component choices over time, not just within an amp, but in a lineage of amps like PPA -> M3, etc.

b) You tap into a community of experts rather than just one. Even with the "mad genius" Xin he needs Goto and other's feedback and ideas before advancing the state of the amp. For example how doe RSA do it? How did Hornet get morphed into Hornet M? There are alleged stories perhaps, but not real facts from the horse's mouth.

And I sense that there is more dynamism in the design evolution because there are alot more people involved, there is healthy competition of ideas, etc., going on in the DIY/OpenSource camp than commercial world. With each post on a DIY thread, views and ideas are challenged and refined. You do this on an hourly/daily basis. With commercial products, RSA can't catch up to what the others are doing until they releases their amp.

Just a few cents of my thoughts on this topic

 

[Uncle Erik]

wlai- you're right. You do get to see designs evolve and tap into a community of builders. Which is why DIY amps tend to be more on the cutting edge than commercial ones are. For a radically new DIY design, all you need is a designer or two and a few dozen willing to go in on PCBs.

There's no capital at stake, no worry of diluting your current product line or offending customers who just bought your "latest and greatest" and so on. Commercial builders have to be conservative in their business approach. That's not a criticism, since I've seen them refine designs and, on the whole, their products are good.

But if you want to listen to what's new, listen to something that may be too radical to sell enough units to justify its cost and also understand your amp, DIY is for you.

 

[cgrums]

I think a key element of DIY is being left out here: many of us that build the amps do so for the building experience as well as the final product. Yes, I like the fact that I can build something that rivals the sound quality of commercially available products but I also really enjoy the actual build process. Additionally the DIY experience gives one a lot of room for flexibility in component choice and tailoring the sound signature of the component to a specific application.