[greggf]

Re: whether or not headphones are sentient creatures, and hence have feelings (and whether or not it's insane or irrational to think that they are):


"The greatest sign of an advanced mind is the ability to think in metaphor." Aristotle


Many people insist upon living on the pre-symbolic level. I wonder how it is that they care about music at all?

Perhaps that's why they're able to tolerate the multitasking inherent in portables - they're not really listening to music at the level home listeners are?

And that brings up a nasty question: are distracted listeners sentient creatures? Or merely . . . automatons of that heralded (and oddly proud) "iPod mobile generation"?

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif Boomana, Why not create a thread comparing the value home amps vs. the portables with the HD650/K701s? Rank the sound quality vs. list price and then all the newcomers can have a good reference to go by, much like what happens with the portable lists. Seems like the majority of new posters have already picked their HP and are looking for the best sound for a particular budget. Your opinions could help direct them to a better purchase if you have the time and resources.

This is an excellent idea, though I think there are those far better suited than I to do it. I'll put my two cents in simply to keep in practice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif To bring it all together, I'm forced to agree that home amps generally sound better than portables. No one is denying that. My big objection was that perhaps portables are all that some could afford, and I felt that they were being marginalized because they hadn't the money to experience the higher quality of a home amp. And this inexperience/lack of funds may lead to the recommendation of an inferior portable amp.

I think we have the same understanding, but have reached different conclusions about what may be the best recommendation in such situations. I think it's kinder to recommend someone save their money and get a very modest home setup if he or she is absolutely set on using the K701s or HD650s than to recommend someone buy something "inferior" to fill a need for immediate gratification. It's also okay to choose different headphones that, as Nikongod said, aren't so picky. There are wonderful choices available. I'm still fond of a rig I had before I knew head-fi existed: ipod>microamp>SR60s. Good sound on a budget. My boss liked it so well, he swiped my headphones. I'd still be happily listening to them otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by joneeboi /img/forum/go_quote.gif First off, let me say I didnt know boomana was a girl. Call me sexist, but that makes a big difference (but we can talk about that another time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Tis a nice thread. Vicki's pretty smart for a girl.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif .... this brings us back to the whole portable VS dedicated bit. at some point the whole amp&headphone thing just clicks into place. while there are certainly steps to be made and as you step up the ladder it usually gets better but you dont HAVE to hang out at the top. no way. the point of this thread is that comparing even similarly priced DEDICATED home and portable amps, the home amp often trumps. this is of KEY consideration to the specifically mentioned cans, which are especially amp dependent. ....

X100 on your whole post, not just what I quoted (I added in for those who also thought it true, but were too shy to type)

 

[holland]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif "The greatest sign of an advanced mind is the ability to think in metaphor." Aristotle

Which is fine, but you give up control in a master/slave arrangement and become more of a pet/friend and thus slave to their desires/needs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif Many people insist upon living on the pre-symbolic level. I wonder how it is that they care about music at all? Perhaps that's why they're able to tolerate the multitasking inherent in portables - they're not really listening to music at the level home listeners are?

I don't see the correlation to living in a pre-symbolic level to caring about music.

Perhaps they have trained themselves to do more than single task? Our brains are very complex. Though I'm not one to keep up with journals, I do recall some studies where one is able to do both artistic and logical thinking simultaneously, but not multiple artistic tasks or multiple logical tasks...areas of brain responsible for said tasks are different.


Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif And that brings up a nasty question: are distracted listeners sentient creatures? Or merely . . . automatons of that heralded (and oddly proud) "iPod mobile generation"?

Very Dilburt-ish.

I would argue, the former. The empathetic affects of audio stimulation are clear to me, whether it's in the foreground or the back. Mood control, calmness, irritability, etc. can be induced by what I listen to in the background, if I let it. I would argue that a distracted listener is probably more sentient, from my experience, as the impact is more subconscious than conscious. When I want to discern whether or not I like a certain piece of music, I don't listen in a focused manner. I let it flow and I free my mind and let the music guide me to wherever it wants. Hi-fi has nothing to do with it. It's the sensation of beats and rhythms and patterns. Perhaps some audiophiles dislike that, as there's no fidelity requirement at all.

Which gets back to your point about caring for music. Is one person supposed to dictate to others how they are supposed to care for music? If so, why and in what manner?

 

[holland]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif the comment "my new opamp runs almost as well as a discrete one with much less power draw" is also frequently exclaimed

Can you link me? I've not heard of this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif this brings us back to the whole portable VS dedicated bit. at some point the whole amp&headphone thing just clicks into place. while there are certainly steps to be made and as you step up the ladder it usually gets better but you dont HAVE to hang out at the top. no way. the point of this thread is that comparing even similarly priced DEDICATED home and portable amps, the home amp often trumps. this is of KEY consideration to the specifically mentioned cans, which are especially amp dependent.

I agree entirely, as I stated earlier the limitations are removed in a dedicated amp. However, it is possible to design a portable amp that exceeds particular dedicated amps, but the power constraint has to be lifted.

My whole portable argument was a roundabout attempt at getting definition by stirring the pot. The OP was ambiguous, drives things better/well, etc. In what way, how? Where's the deficiency?

If the boundaries are not defined, there can not be a meeting of the minds, just a meeting of the like-minded. If one wants a real world example, just take a look at any peace meeting for the middle east.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif after that there is a little way to be paved for personal preference, but at the same time there really isnt. i am willing to wager that the sytems of 2 people who never met save once to duke out their gear, with VERY substantial funds and access to whatever gear would sound LARGELY similar. even if they diverged in "means to the end" (one wanted electrostatic, the other dynamic: one tube the other SS) they would likely work towards a very similar sound. this is a mildly contrived example, as very few of us are fortunate enough to be in this buying position, BUT if you look at them there are clear goals to strive for regardless of how you want to get there.

This is why I never claim to be an audiophile. After a certain point, I cannot hear the differences. In your example, I would never be able to pick out the variances, if any exist. My ears plant me firmly in mid-budget gear.

Although, as you've stated, the burger you make is better than all (not verbatim, but the gist). It is that sentiment that brings me to DIY gear only, other than transducers. What you make is more readily appreciated than what you buy...in a way to try and justify the hobby.

 

[greggf]

Or are iPod users and portable amp users using them the way a baby uses a pacifier?

Are they just comforting themselves, shielding themselves from the painful reality that surrounds them (jobs, cubicles, commutes, city life, wage slavery, other people)? Are they using portable music as a way to avoid intimacy/having contact with other people?

When I drive, I want to drive. I want to feel present to the car and the road.

When I work, I want to be present to the work, the way an Amish woman scrubs a potato.

When I commute, I want to be present to the city or my surroundings.

When I'm around other people, I want to be available, and want them to be available.

When I listen to music, I want to be present to the music. The artist(s) deserves as much. I deserve as much.

It's at this point that, much to my regret, I have to make explicit that I'm not being confrontational. But I am being serious.

I've never understood the point of listening to music on the run or in public. People often say, "But I don't have time to listen to music at home."

Well, shouldn't you arrange a better life for yourself, so that you CAN listen to music for uninterrupted periods of time, at home?

Then the people say, "I'd like to, but I can't!"

Are you powerless? Did the state foist your circumstances upon you?

Get a better life!

I have a good friend, a would-be headphone amp designer/manufacturer, who, when I told him that when I listen to music I just listen to music and don't do anything else, said, "That's INTENSE!" He couldn't conceive of anyone paying that close attention to music. And I ain't talkin' about in a degraded hi-fi sense, geez.

I suspect the truth of the matter is uglier than some would like to admit. I suspect that many Head-Fiers cannot conceive of paying intense, devoted interest to music because they lack the ability to do so.

It's not that they lack the circumstances, the time, or the access to home headphone amps.

I think that it makes them . . . uncomfortable.

 

[NelsonVandal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by greggf /img/forum/go_quote.gif Or are iPod users and portable amp users using them the way a baby uses a pacifier?

When I'm doing the dishes, I want to feel present, everything else would be unethical. With phones on I wouldn't hear if the knives and forks are in pain when I'm scrubbing them.

When I'm picking up after the kids, I want to feel present and salute every toy.

When I'm vacuuing, I want to feel present and say a prayer over the dust before it's final journey.

etc etc

 

[greggf]

NelsonVandal,

Yes! Exactly!

(I do get your irony. It tells us a lot, though.)

Just found this online:

"What is the spiritual practice of being present? Being here now.

The world's religions all recommend living in the moment with full awareness. Zen Buddhism especially is known for its emphasis on 'nowness.'"

What we're talking about is mindfulness. Having a human soul, a human spirit, imagination, empathy, and so on. Portables don't make these things impossible, nor do they facilitate them. It depends upon how you use the devices. How do you use them?

By the way, is NelsonVandal somehow related to Nelson or Lefty Wilbury? Or is it related to the sacking of Rome by the barbarians?

 

[Duheed]

This thread scares me, ive just realised how obsessed u all are.

 

[jamvanman]

Just on the portability of the HD650s. I only use mine at home. But I have a small place, my hi-fi is in one room and often I want to listen in another room for various reasons. In that case I need a portable amp for my HD650s (no space for a second or third home amp).

 

[greggf]

"This thread scares me, ive just realised how obsessed u all are."

By jove, I think you're right!!

 

[MaloS]

nikongod, thank you for the post.

 

[itsborken]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamvanman /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just on the portability of the HD650s. I only use mine at home. But I have a small place, my hi-fi is in one room and often I want to listen in another room for various reasons. In that case I need a portable amp for my HD650s (no space for a second or third home amp).

I've packed HD650s as carry-on for extended trips. Listening to them in a hotel room with an iMod/portable amp is better than nothing at all for a week. HP are as portable as you want them to be--they do not need to be tethered to home-base.

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif I could not have said it any better, loud does not equal good. There is no substitute for massive amounts of current and voltage swing when it comes to ringing the best sound out of lots of headphones and you just can't get that kind of power from a pocket-sized amp running off a battery.

Very well said!

There are too many limitations with a pocket size amplifier for it to be the "ultimate" amplifier, sound vise.

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsborken /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've packed HD650s as carry-on for extended trips. Listening to them in a hotel room with an iMod/portable amp is better than nothing at all for a week. HP are as portable as you want them to be--they do not need to be tethered to home-base.

Thats still not on the point of the thread. Almost any headphone can be used as portable/transportable. Our particular issue is recommendations of portable amps to those who plan to use likes of hd650/k701 at home.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duheed /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread scares me, ive just realised how obsessed u all are.

Yeah, but then we forget about all this and just listen to music. It's really pretty wonderful.