[Elseis66]

That desktop rig is a real price performance monster. Certainly something one can be happy with.

Genau!

 

[RONJA MESCO]

I felt this way about getting into headphones years ago. I felt like I was enjoying the sound from headphones that didn't have the best reviews or were critiqued harshly by audiophiles. When it came to headphones I paid more to get, I became obsessed with trying to find all the ways in which they should [in my mind] be better. I wasn't enjoying my music. I was focused on the headphones, and I was obsessed with analyzing everything. I was nitpicking. Then it turned into, "Maybe I need a better amp? Or DAC? I might need a new source, too. All my files are lossless, is there a better format?" It was a rabbit hole.

And then I realized, what does it matter? They're for my ears only, first and foremost, and if I like what I hear, that's all that matters. Just the same, I may not like what I hear out of higher-end headphones.

Over the years, my needs and preferences have changed, so after a good 10 years or so, I'm picking back up with gradually trying low to mid-priced headphones to figure out what I want out of my equipment before investing more. There were times when I just put on a pair and thought, "I don't get it. This sounds the same as the other pair. Or at least as good."

But more recently, I started noticing really subtle differences in what I was listening to. Maybe something in the mids I hadn't heard before because they were recessed on other sets or overpowered by booming bass; more clarity; wider soundstage... At one point I thought to myself that a pair headphones I really liked were sounding muddier than I remembered, but when I took them off, I was wearing a completely different pair. (I'm really spacey sometimes, okay?)

For me, at least, I've stopped looking at what's critically and universally acclaimed. I used to assume that because things were highly praised, they would automatically suit my listening tastes, and that was wrong. Even when I find people with similar tastes in music, we may have different ideas on what that should sound like. We may like the same profiles, but we may listen to vastly different things. And it's no different from one person thinking a set of headphones is too heavy or uncomfortable while another might think they're the most comfortable headphones in the world.

Makes me think of some studio monitors I was trying. On one hand, they were so clear and accurate, and it was crazy to hear every little detail in recordings. On the other hand, you could hear every little detail in recordings. It was flat, it was boring, it was just honest. So obviously, they're not for listening enjoyment or for people looking for something "fun."

And I suppose that goes for anything. Just because you don't share an opinion doesn't mean you're wrong. If I can't tell the difference, you bet I'll opt for a pair of cheaper headphones and snag some spares with the difference.

So what are you doing wrong? Nothing. Or rather, your focus shouldn't be on what you think you should be hearing and losing sight of what's really important. I think something that should be remembered is that just because you fail to see the hype of a pair of headphones, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with you or your ears. You're just someone with their own preferences, and that's okay. Just the same, you might even prefer a sound signature most others don't.

What matters in the end is that you're happy with what you're hearing.

Thanks for this...after over five years in the hobby, I really think during 2020 was the year I really settled down and became good with my setups. I think at times, it is just as important to have a good setup to bring the best out a pair of cans. I have found that some really really budget headphones can punch above their weight with a good source and dac amp.

 

[Vamp898]

Hi, friends.

I recently got a job that allows me to save money, while enjoying hobbies. I've been in and out of this hobby for many years - mostly because of changes in interest, but more predominantly, because of life (kids, mortgage, bills).

After some rushed purchases through Amazon (DT770, SE425, ES100 MK2, etc), I decided that it was my time to stop playing around and get some sort of endgame. My plan is/was to get an RME ADI-2 DAC FS + headphones (LCD-2 Classic and perhaps some new IEMs) plugged into my computer with Roon/Audirvana. But because I live where I live, I don't have access to listen to some of these equipment. That is why I decided that I wanted to actually "hear" a difference in high end equipment before I went and spend some money on it.

A very nice person invited me to a private showroom here in Mexico City. They had, basically, all of the Focal line up, plus very high end amp DACs and amps (Moon HD230, Chords, etc). They allowed me to enjoy 2+ hours of listening. I listened to Elegias, Elear, Clear, Stellia and Utopia connected to the Moon HD230 and my computer. And while I could listed some differences in the clarity, soundstage, etc. Most of them were very subtle to my ears. To say it mildly, I was very dissapointed.

With this in mind, I am seriously considering not buying more stuff.

Am I doing something something wrong? are my ears trash?

I appreciate any advice

I tested some high-end headphones and i was always disappointed to the point where i stopped caring and thought its all nonsense. I bought the MDR-Z7M2 at some point which sounded pretty awesome, but still disappointed me a bit for the price point. These days there are so many awesome headphones for a good price, that spending 700€ on the MDR-Z7M2 just feels disappointing.

Until i had the chance to get the MDR-Z1R for a really good price (1599€). I mostly bought them because they are Made in Japan but holy moly, are they different from pretty much all high-end headphones.

That is exactly the reason why lot of people hate them but why i love them. They sound like an high-end Stereo System sitting on your ear. Not death, clinical, reference, whatever. They don't try to play in the "Reveal as much micro detail as possible" game but rather don't care and just try to sound as much fun as possible while providing the best sound quality possible in that context.

And the best thing is, they are not amp picky. You could pretty much drive them with your phone and the difference to 2000€ DAC/AMP is not that big.

That is why i mostly buy Sony products and why most people have a difficult relation to Sony. Some people tend to say that Sony is cheating because they make their headphones, daps and so on sound too much fun. So people listen to a Walkman and even though it may be technically (if you measure it) worse, it still seems to sound better for the ear.

And it is kinda cheating in a way... kinda..., Sony is like the high-end premium brand for people who just want to listen to music and not analize it. Who just want to have the best sound quality and the most fun sound.

That is why the bass in the MDR-Z1R hits hard and the bass in the IER-M9 hits hard and the same is true for the IER-Z1R. Most people critisise the IER-Z1R that their sound stage lacks in depth. It sounds big in terms of... well... big. Not large, but big. Like a Stereo System. Its a big, fat and fun sound.

They don't have the widest soundstage, the most flat frequency response, they do sound fun and for a lot of audiophiles that is not what they are looking for.

That is why their products are most successful in Japan and due to that, hard to get anywhere else. And most japanese audiophiles i met listen to Rock/Pop/Metal and want headphones that sound best with these type of music. You may dislike the MDR-Z1R because they do not sound the way you want headphones to sound, but if you like the sound you will for sure not be disappointed.

 

[Paul Mohr]

You are not doing anything wrong. I have been in the same situation as you. I have a few stories you could possibly relate too.

When I was younger, maybe 19 or 20 I was into stereo equipment but fairly poor. I was into the DIY stuff and used to design and build my own speakers. I had what I consider a nice set up for a 19 year old. Large towers that I built, a sansui integrated amp, a cd player (big deal in the 80's lol) a nice tape deck and a teac reel to reel deck. I went to a local high end dealer one day just for the heck of it to look around. They were very nice and showed me around and let me listen to lots of stuff even though it was clear I could not afford it. I listened to a modest system that was maybe a couple thousand dollars with some B&W towers, a pre amp and an amp. I thought it sounded great, I really liked the speakers. I listened to some other stuff that was a bit more expensive and really couldn't tell a big difference. Then they let me listen to their GOD system. This thing cost more than most houses. Had to have been at least 100K or more in equipment. Big mono amps, like Krell or something. Referance speakers that where like over 10K a piece with an expensive pre amp stupid expensive wires, CD player and a turntable that cost more than my car. The guy asked what I thought and I said I wasn't that impressed. I mean it sounded great of course. However it didn't sound 100 times better. The differences were slight. I told him honestly my cobbled together system at home didn't sound all that bad compared to that. He went nuts and told me I was crazy lol. And I reminded him I didn't say it sounded as good or better, but for the money it sounded good enough. And to be quite honest if I could afford it I would get the first system I listened to with the B&W speakers. That sounded almost as good as the uber expensive one, and was better than what I had. Yet it was a price point that was sane. If I worked hard and gave up some of my other hobbies I could probably afford it. This made no sense to him. He said putting aside the reference system, which very few people could really afford he showed me other stuff that was way better than that first system. I told him not to my ears they didn't.

I also listened to an expensive headphone set up because I told him I didn't like headphones. They just never sounded right to me and I liked speakers better. He was like "oh you have never heard good ones then.". I listened, I don't remember what they were, probably some sort of grado's on a stupid expensive tube amp. I said "Eh, sounds like headphones. Nice headphones, but still headphones.". I spent another 30 years trying to find headphones that would give me the same experience speakers can. Still haven't found it. They are just different things and different experiences. However I have grown to like the sound of headphones. I still like speakers but headphones have their place. Different but still something you can enjoy. They do some things better than most speakers can unless you spend a ton of money on speakers and amps. They just can't give you that really open stage is all.

And another thing that relates. I recently uppped my headphone game. I got some Hifiman Sundara's an Asgard 3 amp and a modi3+ dac. I compared that set up with different headphones and different devices. It is better, no doubt about it. However again the differences are subtle. I let my brother listen to the set up, and did kind of the same test with him. My brother likes music, but he likes live music. Loves going to rock concerts, clubs and country venues. I let him listen to some cheap 20 dollar headphones powered by my computers onboard audio with a song played off youtube. Then I let him listen to the same song streaming off from Tidal master quality with my sundara's and asgard 3 amp. He wasn't impressed. He admitted they sounded better but nothing mind blowing. When I told him that set up cost almost 800 bucks he told me I was nuts. To him the differences simply were not worth the money. The cheap set up sounded just fine to him. Kind of the same way I was when I listened to expensive two channel home systems. Everyone has different tastes and priorities. Keep in mind, my brother has a 14,000 dollar snowmobile that does 130 mph or so. I think that is nuts lol. To each their own I guess.

You are probably like me and my brother. As audio gets more expensive the returns become much lower and harder to notice once you hit a certain point. It is quite possible you can't hear those differences or they simply don't matter to you. Which isn't a bad thing at all. Look at the money you will save lol. I can honestly say at this point I am at the end of the line in my headphone game. What I have is more than enough for my needs. I have no desire to buy a more expensive amp or dac. Nor do I have any desire to buy 2000 dollar headphones. I would probably put that money into something else I enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with you and your ears are not broken. You just do you. Music is different for every person. Enjoy it in whatever way it makes you happy.

 

[squeakez]

You are not doing anything wrong. I have been in the same situation as you. I have a few stories you could possibly relate too.

When I was younger, maybe 19 or 20 I was into stereo equipment but fairly poor. I was into the DIY stuff and used to design and build my own speakers. I had what I consider a nice set up for a 19 year old. Large towers that I built, a sansui integrated amp, a cd player (big deal in the 80's lol) a nice tape deck and a teac reel to reel deck. I went to a local high end dealer one day just for the heck of it to look around. They were very nice and showed me around and let me listen to lots of stuff even though it was clear I could not afford it. I listened to a modest system that was maybe a couple thousand dollars with some B&W towers, a pre amp and an amp. I thought it sounded great, I really liked the speakers. I listened to some other stuff that was a bit more expensive and really couldn't tell a big difference. Then they let me listen to their GOD system. This thing cost more than most houses. Had to have been at least 100K or more in equipment. Big mono amps, like Krell or something. Referance speakers that where like over 10K a piece with an expensive pre amp stupid expensive wires, CD player and a turntable that cost more than my car. The guy asked what I thought and I said I wasn't that impressed. I mean it sounded great of course. However it didn't sound 100 times better. The differences were slight. I told him honestly my cobbled together system at home didn't sound all that bad compared to that. He went nuts and told me I was crazy lol. And I reminded him I didn't say it sounded as good or better, but for the money it sounded good enough. And to be quite honest if I could afford it I would get the first system I listened to with the B&W speakers. That sounded almost as good as the uber expensive one, and was better than what I had. Yet it was a price point that was sane. If I worked hard and gave up some of my other hobbies I could probably afford it. This made no sense to him. He said putting aside the reference system, which very few people could really afford he showed me other stuff that was way better than that first system. I told him not to my ears they didn't.

I also listened to an expensive headphone set up because I told him I didn't like headphones. They just never sounded right to me and I liked speakers better. He was like "oh you have never heard good ones then.". I listened, I don't remember what they were, probably some sort of grado's on a stupid expensive tube amp. I said "Eh, sounds like headphones. Nice headphones, but still headphones.". I spent another 30 years trying to find headphones that would give me the same experience speakers can. Still haven't found it. They are just different things and different experiences. However I have grown to like the sound of headphones. I still like speakers but headphones have their place. Different but still something you can enjoy. They do some things better than most speakers can unless you spend a ton of money on speakers and amps. They just can't give you that really open stage is all.

And another thing that relates. I recently uppped my headphone game. I got some Hifiman Sundara's an Asgard 3 amp and a modi3+ dac. I compared that set up with different headphones and different devices. It is better, no doubt about it. However again the differences are subtle. I let my brother listen to the set up, and did kind of the same test with him. My brother likes music, but he likes live music. Loves going to rock concerts, clubs and country venues. I let him listen to some cheap 20 dollar headphones powered by my computers onboard audio with a song played off youtube. Then I let him listen to the same song streaming off from Tidal master quality with my sundara's and asgard 3 amp. He wasn't impressed. He admitted they sounded better but nothing mind blowing. When I told him that set up cost almost 800 bucks he told me I was nuts. To him the differences simply were not worth the money. The cheap set up sounded just fine to him. Kind of the same way I was when I listened to expensive two channel home systems. Everyone has different tastes and priorities. Keep in mind, my brother has a 14,000 dollar snowmobile that does 130 mph or so. I think that is nuts lol. To each their own I guess.

You are probably like me and my brother. As audio gets more expensive the returns become much lower and harder to notice once you hit a certain point. It is quite possible you can't hear those differences or they simply don't matter to you. Which isn't a bad thing at all. Look at the money you will save lol. I can honestly say at this point I am at the end of the line in my headphone game. What I have is more than enough for my needs. I have no desire to buy a more expensive amp or dac. Nor do I have any desire to buy 2000 dollar headphones. I would probably put that money into something else I enjoy.

There is nothing wrong with you and your ears are not broken. You just do you. Music is different for every person. Enjoy it in whatever way it makes you happy.

Thanks for sharing your experience! I am sharing my two cents since I saw that you have the Sundaras. I also have them and they are my favorite headphone I've heard to date. About a month ago, I finally received a set of ZMF Verite Closed after waiting 12 long weeks for them to be built. I was really looking forward to hearing these since the hype train was strong for these. On my first listen I was very underwhelmed so I decided to put them on the burn station for 100 hours. Afterwards, still underwhelmed. I also had the Sundara, so every night I would start with the VCs and find myself reaching for the Sundaras after about 45 minutes. As soon as the Sundaras were on my head, I could feel myself instantly engaged much more with the music. There was no comparison as far as my ears were concerned. A $375 headphone eclipsed a $2500 headphone. I also had this same experience with the ZMF Eikon. I just didn't see what people heard in these headphones.

I recently inherited a large sum of money from my father's passing. I can literally buy any headphone, amp, dac, etc. that I want. But, after many disappointing experiences with higher end gear, I am very hesitant to make those purchases. I may try a couple, but I am not in any hurry to do so.

 

[Paul Mohr]

Sorry to hear about your father. I lost my mother back in July after a long battle with dementia. That is how I got my Asgard3 and Modi 3+. I was her guardian and care taker but someone else was her conservator (handled the money). After her passing she said she was going to pay me for taking care of my mother for years and never asking for anything in return. I spent about 500 dollars of it on the amp, dac and a new cable for my sundara's. The rest I am holding back because I need to find an apartment to move into and I might need it for expenses. We still need to settle the house and sell it and that will be split between my brother and I. I am sure I could afford to buy any headphones or amp I want after that but what I have is more than enough.

The main difference I notice with the sundaras is they have exceptional clarity in the highs and they have a nice wide sound stage (for headphones). My K371's are very accurate, detailed and image quite well but its all just kind of right there in your face or head. And getting a better amp and dac did help. I really didn't think it would make much of a difference but it did. And it did it with every headphone I hooked up to it. However the more I listen to it the less I notice the differences. Like when I did the test for my brother with the 20 dollar sony's, my computer and youtube. I listened to it as well and compared the two systems again. The difference was not as large as I originally remembered it being when I did my initial testing and comparisons. In order for my brother to notice the differences I had to tell him what to listen to on specific songs. Like how wide the sound was and where each instrument or voice came from. Once he listened for those things he could hear them but to him it wasn't anything he cared about it. His initial response when hearing the two was he said the sundara's were more clear and had better highs compared to the others. He didn't think it was worth 800 bucks though lol. I also let him listen to my bose QC35II's on my phone streaming tidal with noise canceling on. Those he really liked. Until he found out they cost 350 bucks lol. He is way more impressed with my home theater system. I have a denon with DTS neural X, polk signature speakers and 2 subwoofers. He thinks movies are awesome on it. He said it sounds better than the movie theater. Then I played him some Madona and he was amazed it sounded 3d and sound was coming from everywhere in the room. He said "all these speakers really make a difference don't they.". Then I told him it was in two channel mode and he was only hearing two speakers lol. It is all about how you set them up and aim them. It is just something I have never heard a headphone be able to do. They can kind of do it, but it only extends the soundfield beyond your head by a few inches or maybe a foot. Its like a bubble around your head. Where as with speakers it can make your room and speakers vanish. What my speakers can't do are deliver the detail and dynamic range of headphones. Not at my budget anyway.