Dissapointed with high end headphones... what am I doing wrong?

[JDFlood]

I have never been able to tell much of anything at a vendors location. Everything is foreign, too many choices, very distracting environment. Much of the difficulty has to do with the complex nature of music. You are not comparing one tone between different headphones... or systems... it is dozens constantly changing. Take one single drum beat: there is a leading edge, sweep through frequencies, heft, decay, etc... all of which will be somewhat different among what you listened to. Your mind must really make a holistic appraisal while your mind’s eye (ear) flits from transient sound to sound. so first it takes experience learning to observe the different components of the sound of music reproduction... and the language. Tonal balance, rhythm and pace, leading edges, slam...etc. if you are interested, there is a great deal of pleasure to be derived from pursuing better sound in music. It can be overwhelming At the start. I think getting a high quality set of headphones and DAC/Amp is a good way to go. Then enjoy the music at that plateau, and you will learn to appreciate them, and maybe realize you would like a higher quality sound. You may like certain aspects of the sound more than others. Typically at first slam and bass is what is desired, but your priorities may change over time. The sound you get is the result of the whole system, source, headphones, amp, DAC, interconnects. Most of us use a separate DAC and amp for more flexibility in upgrade, but there are many really good high quality integrated components.

LCD-2 are great headphones, very capable of tremendous sound. Yes, they are a little heavy, but unless you are 70 or want to jog with them, them are probably a good choice. I upgraded my electronics that were driving them from a few hundred dollars to a few thousand and they scaled and were up to the upgrade each time. I just recommend reach for as good a quality as you can afford, it will likely be worth it, and provide years of listening pleasure.

 

[CoryGillmore]

Thanks! What are your thoughts on Lyr 3 with 4490 DAC?

I can't speak on the Lyr3 as I don't own one. I do own a Schiit Modius and a Jotunheim with the integrated 4490 DAC. Both the Modius and the integrated 4490 sound great. Using the Modius allowed me to utilize the XLR inputs on the back of my Jotunheim, which greatly increased its power output. Other than that they basically sound the same. Even though the Modius measures way better than the 4490 in the Jotunheim, I can't hear it. Which makes sense since all the improvements in measurements are way beyond audible perceptibility. Nonetheless you'll find a million people on here claiming they're night and day. Which is why there's no way in hell I'd be spending over $1000 on that RME DAC. I'm slowly finding myself in the camp that all high end electronics are snake oil....Blind testing also shows this...

That said I do get more enjoyment when playing music through objects which are cool to look at and touch. Which is why I still buy high end headphone cables. So I totally do get the allure of shiny new toys.

 

[JDFlood]

I was very skeptical at first, but finally broke down after so many good reviews. I now have two pieces of Schiit. I have to admi, they live up to their reputation of really good value for the money. I would not hesitate to recommend them. Buy the highest level you can afford. Remember, it will take more than 100 hours to break in.

 

[headwig]

Both the Modius and the integrated 4490 sound great. Using the Modius allowed me to utilize the XLR inputs on the back of my Jotunheim, which greatly increased its power output. Other than that they basically sound the same. Even though the Modius measures way better than the 4490 in the Jotunheim, I can't hear it. Which makes sense since all the improvements in measurements are way beyond audible perceptibility.

With DACs I just remind myself that audiophiles now scoff at the high-end DACs of years ago, but back then they were fawning all over them while similarly putting down the DACs of a few years earlier. I've seen people recently saying that no DAC before about 2 years ago is worth listening to. But oddly there we all were in the 1980s and 1990s, enjoying digital audio just as much as we do now. How did we manage it?

Someone advised me recently that the main problem with my system was my terrible old 1st gen ODAC, so as I was upgrading my system anyway I bought a Topping D90 DAC. I went from a device that was near the bottom end of the market circa 2011 to one that is in the middle to high tier in 2020. My first impression was, "Is this it? This sounds OK just like the old one did." Not the night and day difference I had been led to expect.

After a week or two with the D90 I could tell I was enjoying the music more than I did before, but the differences are really subtle. It sounds slightly more rigorous, slightly more transparent and less smudgy. So I dug out my old Jolida JD-100 CD player from circa 2002, and compared CDs through its inbuilt DAC/amp to CDs and FLACs through my current DAC/amp. Again, the new equipment is subtly better - a little more air, a little more clarity to the guitar's pluck, a little more focus in each instrument's tone. But it is really subtle, and if someone said they preferred the old machine's tone (very slightly softer and gentler) I wouldn't think they were crazy. There's a ton of good-sounding equipment and most preferences are just personal taste.

And yet you'll hear people on these forums talking like listenable DACs were only invented months ago. So now I assume every comparison I read on the forums, particularly about DACs, is exaggerated. The differences between DACs and amps are subtle, the differences between headphones slightly less so. Get a headphone with a sound you like, any reasonable DAC and an amp that can drive it well enough, and the rest is mostly people fretting over detail.

 

[JDFlood]

With DACs I just remind myself that audiophiles now scoff at the high-end DACs of years ago, but back then they were fawning all over them while similarly putting down the DACs of a few years earlier. I've seen people recently saying that no DAC before about 2 years ago is worth listening to. But oddly there we all were in the 1980s and 1990s, enjoying digital audio just as much as we do now. How did we manage it?

I think it is a point of view and value thing with lots of variables in the mix. I have been enjoying high-en audio for fifty years, and also with my partner high end home theater. Every system is a system... the sound the sum all of it’s parts, so almost none sound the same. I can say that, in general, musical fidelity for like level high end products has significantly improved very significantly over any ten year period. This is relative to the norm. I remember being blown away by the first little plastic portable radio in the 1960’s. Then my Nakamichi Dragon in the late 70’s, and my top of the line Sony Walkman with Dolby C that weighed a couple pounds. The change over any ten year period has been profound. However, at any time you could connect a few very expensive components together and get crap sound. I have a friend that has a thirty-thousand dollar system that sounds terrible... he is not good at decision making in ambiguous situations. Then there are your values... the value of money, and of the sound you hear. If you highly value money and not sound quality, you are going to scoff at the whole thing. Also, some people appreciate different aspects of the music. I had a friend that had three thousand albums and was completely happy with a fifty dollar record player. He only cared about the notes and how they were strung together. Give some people some bass and they are happy. Some like voices, some high levels of details and they don’t care if their ears bleed.

In 1979 I bought an old, used, first generation Nakamichi tape deck after being disappointed with a contemporary highly acclaimed mid-fi Onkyo tape deck... I literally dropper my jaw in awe at how much better the old high end Nakamichi sounded than the top of the Onkyo. I have never looked back. i am fortunate to have two spectacular systems (head and room) and really enjoy being lost in them... the 50 years of pursuit was worth it.

 

[IEManiac]

What would you recommend? I want to spend, max, USD300 in EIMs (I already have some Etys and a Shure SE425.. I am planning to sell them all to get one "final" pair.

Look into Shozy Rouge, TRI I3, BQEYZ Spring 2. They are all $169. No need to spend $300.

 

[KPzypher]

Hi, friends.

I recently got a job that allows me to save money, while enjoying hobbies. I've been in and out of this hobby for many years - mostly because of changes in interest, but more predominantly, because of life (kids, mortgage, bills).

After some rushed purchases through Amazon (DT770, SE425, ES100 MK2, etc), I decided that it was my time to stop playing around and get some sort of endgame. My plan is/was to get an RME ADI-2 DAC FS + headphones (LCD-2 Classic and perhaps some new IEMs) plugged into my computer with Roon/Audirvana. But because I live where I live, I don't have access to listen to some of these equipment. That is why I decided that I wanted to actually "hear" a difference in high end equipment before I went and spend some money on it.

A very nice person invited me to a private showroom here in Mexico City. They had, basically, all of the Focal line up, plus very high end amp DACs and amps (Moon HD230, Chords, etc). They allowed me to enjoy 2+ hours of listening. I listened to Elegias, Elear, Clear, Stellia and Utopia connected to the Moon HD230 and my computer. And while I could listed some differences in the clarity, soundstage, etc. Most of them were very subtle to my ears. To say it mildly, I was very dissapointed.

With this in mind, I am seriously considering not buying more stuff.

Am I doing something something wrong? are my ears trash?

I appreciate any advice

Absolutely nothing wrong with your ears.

It's like PCM vs DSD, AKM vs sabre chips, DS vs R2R, SS vs tube, OTL vs SET, SE vs balanced, 6.3 vs XLR, or perhaps copper vs silver cable. To some, differences are vast, and to others, indistinguishable. It's all relative and nothing more than a personal experience.

It's funny though, how everytime a new audio gear is introduced to the market, how people like to gawk over it and praise how much better it is than the last piece of gear. If that were true, we would all be in audio nirvana by now.

If you are content with what you currently own, you truly are a winner in this game.

 

[axtran]

Maybe you need to find exactly what you like. A less expensive way to do it than buying and trying is to get a pair of headphones with a big modding community (like Fostex RP's) and follow mods that change the frequency to what you feel makes you happy. I listen to a lot of classical guitar so I tuned to adapt to my favorites and listening patterns and I had more fun than even using TOTL headphones.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

How much does the LCD2 weight to cause back/neck problems??? 550gr? And how is the Sundara?

My Amiron Wireless Copper weights 400gr and yet it's one of the most comfortable headphone I've ever aside the Amiron Home. I think I've found my perfect headphones.

It is really about fit and weight distribution and comfort all rolled into one. I find LCD-2C and 3 more comfortable than a pair of HD 800s. I feel like I'm down inside the Audezes, it adds to the experience. It's very personal.

 

[ThanatosVI]

If you are content with what you currently own, you truly are a winner in this game.

That is so true.
However in most peoples nature lies the urge for "more"

So for most, even if they are content now it likely won't last forever

 

[E8ArmyDiver]

How much does the LCD2 weight to cause back/neck problems??? 550gr? And how is the Sundara?
Did NOT cause the MASSIVE degenerated disc issues from 45 years of sport diving(10,000+ dives) & 32 years as an Engineer Diver in the U.S.Army,the LCD-2F only irritated the existing problems..The Sundara & previous 400i never give me issues despite 8+ hour sessions..

 

[omniweltall]

Thanks! What DAC/Amp combo would you recommend that won't break the bank?

In the end, it depends on your sound preference and budget.

I would recommend Schiit Modi ($100), Schiit Magni ($100), and a headphone of choice. My preferred headphone is definitely HD600 or HD6XX. This system is very nice and more than enough for 90% people out there. If you have to go planar, I definitely recommend the Verum One. It is the planar equivalent of HD600. Beautiful tonality. Pick your poison.

 

[headwig]

I definitely recommend the Verum One.

Careful with the customer service for that one though. Search around on the forums (reddit and elsewhere) and you'll find some horror stories.

 

[omniweltall]

Careful with the customer service for that one though. Search around on the forums (reddit) and you'll find some horror stories.

Yes agreed. I have owned 3 of the Verum Ones. It takes quite a while for the unit to get to your hands. Be prepared for around 3 months with potentially no update. But in my and my friends' case, the units always came eventually and sometimes suddenly when we least expect it. I think it is worth the risk for that kind of sound quality. I cannot think of any better sound or value for $350 planar. And that's including shipping and most likely tax.

But if I have to make a choice, I would go for HD600/6XX. These are the benchmark, have stood the test of time, and will always be relevant, even when you upgrade your gears in the future. I started with these, and eventually came back to these.

That's my 2c.

 

[JDFlood]

It is really about fit and weight distribution and comfort all rolled into one. I find LCD-2C and 3 more comfortable than a pair of HD 800s. I feel like I'm down inside the Audezes, it adds to the experience. It's very personal.

I must admit my HD800s‘ can cause pain on top of my head sometimes... I just can’t figure out how this can be with such light high end headphones. It is like they designed them to be that way. Yes, my LCD2s are more comfortable than the HD 800s’.