[ToppantoB]

Hello everyone!

I've recently purchased a Sennheiser HD600. This is my introduction to the "better sounding" world, but I have to say I am kinda disappointed.
Some basic info: I use these headphones with an iFi Nano iDSD Black Label connected to my laptop (Surface Laptop 2). Unfortunately, this is a company computer so I have limited access to installing software.

I have some .flac files on this computer and I use VLC to play them, but when I do, (I don't even know how to say this) they sound like they have a layer on the top of them, they sound kinda dull. I hope this makes sense because that is the best I could describe it.
I tried to tweak around with the settings, I changed the "Default Format" in the Windows sound settings from '24 bit, 48000hz' to higher , but after that VLC didn't play any sound so I had to switch it back.
I downloaded Tidal as well (I know the opinions about it, but I just wanted to test the sound), and interestingly enough, it sounded more clear then the tracks through VLC, even though I wasn't able to get the purple light out of the Black Label (it should light up purple when you play .mqa format). I tried iFi's help video as well but it didn't work.
Despite having a better sound on Tidal, I am still missing the "Wow factor" I was looking for when I set my eyes on these cans. I have to admit, I made a mistake because I've never tried any high-end headphones with a good setup before, so I don't know what to expect, I was just hyped after the months of searching and money saving (I'm still a student so this set up isn't the cheapest for me).

My questions would be the following:
1, Was I just overhyped?
2, Is the iFi iDSD Black Label too weak to power the HD600s properly?
3, Am I messing something up with my playback options?

Just to let you know, these are still the best sounding headphones I've ever had (previously I owned a Superlux HD669), but not by the margin I was expecting.

 

[drjoms]

I am total noob. I have been registered here for years. And I did not come here to give suggestions, but rather to get one. And I will ask for suggestion later, to which you may want to subscribe to.
Your question hit right buttons with me.

My SH HD598 are falling apart on me after over 5 years of active listening(computer nerd who spends 40+ hours a week at PC as hobby, beside 40+ hours job at the PC). Would continue using them, but sooner or later, sooner, they will collapse on my ears. Cable while is VERY sturdy, seems to be loosing connection on very rare occasion, soft parts are getting inside out. Don't let it upset you, Senheiser are good set of cans. You made no mistake here.
I was looking into getting HD600 for myself as Christmas new year and birthday presents. I have Xonair DX DAC/sound card. And I was looking into getting an AMP.

A few years ago I got myself in local store portable mini AMP. I cant remember exactly what it was. It was around 50$. But it was one of those "highly praised" devices that get a lot of positive reviews.
Shock and odd, they hissed like mother in law. So here i was with brand new item. So I went to store, replace it, and thanks god for great money back guaranteed offers Maplins had, I replaced it, and same hissing noise on two devices(phone + PC) and two earphones.(HD598 and some crappy in ear thingies I used to go to gym)

Sound to noise ratio, mh-mh, nope, never heard of that!

After which I gave up on idea of having amp.

So I looked into HD600. And one thing you will notice about them:
https://www.cnet.com/products/sennheiser-hd-600/specs/

300 Ohm.

For comparison, most in earphones have 10-30 ohm.

Your iFi Nano iDSD:
https://ifi-audio.com/products/nano-idsd-bl/

I am no sound engineer, but from page above "Output Impedance: < 240Ω".
Anyone else to notice this here??? From look of it, your AMP is not sufficient enough. But again, I seriously doubt you listen to music on loudest setting. But then, I have seen suggestion, that max impedance of AMP supposed to be several times more than what earphone state on their package. AND i have seen, that "too much amplification" causes bass to be "too much". In other words, I have seen a lot of bull online.

Also, from many many moons back, I have seen friend of mine had to configure sound card settings of his PC, to have higher sample rate/resolution.
you may be using wrong drivers/settings. I am NOT windows guy, but from many years above, I remember seeing seeing him setting up in control panel or smth.

Also...

In order to listen to something with higher resolution higher bitrate, you must HAVE IT FIRST.

Most mp3 people torrent have standard CD quality.

Try getting some files with higher quality. Also not all files even with good software settings were recorded properly.(crap mic for example)

Try shittier ear phones with no AMP. Sit in one for an hour and in others. Even with mixed up settings you will probably hear difference.

Also... Not everyone is sharp with ears. Did you hear difference between good earphones and bad ones before in any environment? Are you capable of hearing difference?

Now i am not so sure about me. But I suspect that I can hear difference between earphones based on how it catches me off guard, that I listen to my crappy phone earphones, come home, listen to my HD598, and am all like: "what a music to my ears!".(pun intended)

Then I get used to it and don't notice "better sound", until i listen to music on shittier ones. But i generally don't listen to music on shittier ones. I listed podcasts, etc.

Also consider, that not every type of music is heavy on your ear phones.

When I want to please my earpussies I listen to Apocalyptica. Rock music on classical instruments. There is no better benchmark!
In fact I listen to it as I type it.

So my suggestion:
1. get good super high sample sound file or two.
2. Try sample file on built in DAC with crappy earphones.
3. Connect new stuff.
3. Make sure that your driver settings are set to higher than average 16bit/41000khz
4. Listen to that file on newer cans.
5. Notice difference in sound and in "stage".(try to close eyes and guess where instruments are)
6. Find one of many "frequency tests" out there. Where they start to play sound at 1 hz, and end up in 30 khz. If you start to realise that something is humming "below 30hz" - you may be not a lost cause from biological perspective. If can hear smth below 20 hz - or above 25 khz - you are lucky. Do this test with both crappy set and good dac/amp/cans set.


I also noticed, that i need to crank volume up on this one to be able to perceive sound better. Which is odd to me personally, but i can hear 20 hertz louder, when on less loud settings i start to hear it from 30 hz. Same with high frequency. medium, my usual is 15.5K, with higher stuff 16K may be even slightly more. Which is pretty awesome for my age.

God damn it. wanted 3-4 lines response.
And a ****ing esse.
You learn words in any language first. Then you hone accent. If you know what I mean. You have been musically castrated for long time. Now a new pair is growing, perhaps.

 

[drjoms]

Also, consider, even if you had cheap stuff, you may have been lucky, and had a good pair of earphones on the cheap. Lack of a draw. so you may not realise, but you have been spoiled.
And I still am sitting here and enjoying Apocalyptica. I know where every cello is.
https://www.apocalyptica.com/music/reflections-1--11-.html

 

[Redcarmoose]

Hello everyone!

I've recently purchased a Sennheiser HD600. This is my introduction to the "better sounding" world, but I have to say I am kinda disappointed.
Some basic info: I use these headphones with an iFi Nano iDSD Black Label connected to my laptop (Surface Laptop 2). Unfortunately, this is a company computer so I have limited access to installing software.

I have some .flac files on this computer and I use VLC to play them, but when I do, (I don't even know how to say this) they sound like they have a layer on the top of them, they sound kinda dull. I hope this makes sense because that is the best I could describe it.
I tried to tweak around with the settings, I changed the "Default Format" in the Windows sound settings from '24 bit, 48000hz' to higher , but after that VLC didn't play any sound so I had to switch it back.
I downloaded Tidal as well (I know the opinions about it, but I just wanted to test the sound), and interestingly enough, it sounded more clear then the tracks through VLC, even though I wasn't able to get the purple light out of the Black Label (it should light up purple when you play .mqa format). I tried iFi's help video as well but it didn't work.
Despite having a better sound on Tidal, I am still missing the "Wow factor" I was looking for when I set my eyes on these cans. I have to admit, I made a mistake because I've never tried any high-end headphones with a good setup before, so I don't know what to expect, I was just hyped after the months of searching and money saving (I'm still a student so this set up isn't the cheapest for me).

My questions would be the following:
1, Was I just overhyped?
2, Is the iFi iDSD Black Label too weak to power the HD600s properly?
3, Am I messing something up with my playback options?

Just to let you know, these are still the best sounding headphones I've ever had (previously I owned a Superlux HD669), but not by the margin I was expecting.

I have heard the HD600 but not the Superlux HD669. You simply need to expose your hearing to more sets of headphones. Also are you using the VLC program simply because that’s the only playback program you know about. I have tested it and it’s OK. But if you get a chance try and download Foobar2000 with the WASABI plug in.

But after that if you still are not finding the sound you want, keep checking out different headphones. We can try and reverse engineer your whole situation, but it simply may be your not into the sound of the headphones.

There is a subjective part of music gear that can be analyzed but never totally figured out. Everyone has a slightly different idea as to what sounds correct in the end.

Much of this can be what music playback you have been exposed to in your listening history. You just need to meet up with other people who have gear, go to a headphone meet....or make it to a retail location where you can try gear first hand. There is never going to be a replacement to hearing gear yourself.

Cheers!

 

[ToppantoB]

Thank you @drjoms for the "esse". To be honest, I don't mind that you didn't fit your answer in 3-4 lines, your whole reply was really interesting. My main focus would be on classical music so I guess we have some similarities regarding the classical instruments. I will also check out the frequency test, thanks a lot

@Redcarmoose regrding your reply I know that I still got a long way to go regarding the audio setup. I was also thinking about going out and trying some gears.
About the playback programs, yes, I was using VLC because that was the only one I knew about and could install to my computer (as I mentioned I have restricted rights on this laptop, I'll get my own in a couple of months). So I will definitely try out some other software as well.
Talking about the Superlux, it's a really cheap brand from China that offers okay sounds (for audio noobs, like me) for a very cheap price. Just wanted to let you know that I switched from a lower level to the HD600s.

I think there is no question about the fact that I'm messing something up in the settings or with the setup, as tidal shouldn't sound better than flac. I will try to get some high quality tracks, I'll try to tweak around with the setup and I'll definitely try out other gears.

Cheers

 

[Monsterzero]

I have some .flac files on this computer and I use VLC to play them, but when I do, (I don't even know how to say this) they sound like they have a layer on the top of them, they sound kinda dull. I hope this makes sense because that is the best I could describe it.

My main focus would be on classical music

A couple thoughts for you to consider. IMO the HD600,while a true legend in the hobby,to my ears is a rather boring sounding headphone regardless of what amp and/or DAC you use. It seems to be the ubiquitous choice for 1st timers,and eventually we all move onto other headphones once we figure out the sound were going for. It does nothing bad per se,but it does nothing really exceptionally either.

Second thing is the HD600 has a notoriously narrow soundstage,which does not lend itself to classical music. For classical you might consider a different headphone,like the AKG K601,K701,K702,K7xx. All of those have a more wide open sound than the HD600,arent silly expensive and will spread out the way classical music is meant to be heard.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I've recently purchased a Sennheiser HD600. This is my introduction to the "better sounding" world, but I have to say I am kinda disappointed.
Some basic info: I use these headphones with an iFi Nano iDSD Black Label connected to my laptop (Surface Laptop 2). Unfortunately, this is a company computer so I have limited access to installing software.

I have some .flac files on this computer and I use VLC to play them, but when I do, (I don't even know how to say this) they sound like they have a layer on the top of them, they sound kinda dull.

1, Was I just overhyped?

People who like the HD600/650/6XX/58X/580J tend to swing towards people who are towards the spectrum for hyperacusis while you might be swinging towards the age-related higher freq hearing loss spectrum.

Somewhere in the middle of people who have no physiological issues are people who like them for the flatter midrange and people who hate them because they hate flat sound and want something with response similar to Grados. This is more likely where you are.

And then there's a few other caveats, like
1. Some HD600 and HD580J have a peak at 3500hz. MIne does, but since I'm towards the hyperacusis spectrum (not to mention I can hear since waves up to 25000hz), I apply a -3dB wide cut there so everything between 1000hz and 9000hz are slightly softer than 1000hz.
2. How tight you wear them can affect the sound. Too loose and they sound like the AKG K66, too tight and they can sound like a DT770 at both ends or just at the top end (especially if you're on MP3s of music that doesn't even have a lot of bass on lossless).

Just to let you know, these are still the best sounding headphones I've ever had (previously I owned a Superlux HD669), but not by the margin I was expecting.

Well that's one other explanation other than those above: you're used to the elevated treble on the HD669. Scaling is far from perfect but you can still see how much taller the treble peaks are on the HD669.

You can try removing the foam covering the driver. Pop out the earpad and that cover falls off, put the earpads back without a cover on the drivers. One downside: this doesn't boost the low end, only the top end, so it will make the low end seem weaker than before; wear it tighter, same problem, but worse.

2, Is the iFi iDSD Black Label too weak to power the HD600s properly?

If you're like me who'd crank it up real loud and have no distortion, then kind of.

If you crank it up and you get more top end but you're getting distortion, most easily at the low end, then sure, get something with more power, but even then at safe for longer play time listening (ie you're not just cranking it up for a few choice tracks), it won't be drastically different.

That said some amps can swing either way as you crank it up, and iFi's distortion can exacerbate the problem, while whatever you were using before might be going the other way, enhancing the treble on the Superlux even more. If you were using them with the iFi, then the iFi is also probably trimming some of that excess a little bit but exacerbating what you perceive as a problem on the Sennheisers.

3, Am I messing something up with my playback options?

Not really. You'd have to have severe software problems or mess up the EQ for the difference to be that easily apparent.

-------

Tweaking the HD600's foam is an option since it's cheap. If it's not enough and you're going to spend money, it's safer to buy a different headphone than a different amp. You can upgrade an amp to get more power but unless you're getting something that will have a drastically different tone and thus fail at what an amp is supposed to be doing - ie, it's called an amplifier instead of an equalizer for a reason - it's safer to just get a headphone with the response you want.

I'd say get an AKG K712 instead, then upgrade the amp later as it needs around 512mW to maximize it ie play loud with no clipping nor excessive distortion (note some amps might have audible noise still). The only reservation on this is that the headband can't be adjusted to get tighter, so if you think that might be a something to be concerned about, get a Beyer DT880 250ohm instead.

 

[castleofargh]

1, Was I just overhyped?

who knows? Expectations have no lower or higher limits. Of course audiophile comments as a trend, are completely biased. Owners of a product will tend to lack any ability to criticize their own gears. So if you used that as only reference to make up your mind, you're almost always going to be disappointed.
At the risk of getting burned as a witch, I think the real magic is in the song you decide to play, not so much in the gear.

2, Is the iFi iDSD Black Label too weak to power the HD600s properly?

Unless you're listening at crazy loud volumes, power is not the issue.

3, Am I messing something up with my playback options?

That's the billion dollar question.
I'm going to assume that you're not using the IEMatch output which is a voltage divider for IEMs(it's in the name), and that you have properly installed the drivers from the site instead of letting Windows put some crap for you. And also that you checked if there is some firmware update on that model(I've seen some on other IFI devices so maybe?).
If that specific model is supposed to shine magenta with MQA from tidal, and it doesn't, something isn't right. Doesn't mean it's the cause of your underwhelming impressions, but it's worth looking it up. Check the Tidal app maybe? I don't use it and I hate everything about MQA, but MQA needs a proper bit perfect stream to be decoded by the DAC. Maybe it's how things work by default, maybe you have options? IDK.

Beside Tidal, install a proper audio player instead of VLC. And when you look for the output device inside the audio player, you should see the ASIO output installed with the drivers. If you get that to work and the sound is still wrong somehow, then most likely you just want a different headphone.

Most audio players will come with at least some basic EQ options, you should fool around with that and find out if a different signature would please you more. After using that for a few days, you can decide if you're fine with it or if you want to go look for a headphone that already has a closer signature backed in. Our taste is personal, and our concept of neutral is entirely based on our own body, so don't listen to anybody telling you the headphone XXXX is neutral. If it doesn't sound neutral to you, then it's not neutral to you. And if it's not enjoyable, then it doesn't matter if there's a legion of fanboys behind that headphone. they're not hearing what you are hearing. If you have limited headphone experience, go to a store to try as many as you can(even the cheap ones). Take note of those you like and then check online what their frequency response is. You might find some pattern that will help you pick a headphone you're more likely to enjoy in the future.

I am no sound engineer, but from page above "Output Impedance: < 240Ω".
Anyone else to notice this here??? From look of it, your AMP is not sufficient enough.

You're reading the specs for the line output, and the value is how much that output measures, not what devices we should plug into it.
The headphone output is below one ohm on that model.

 

[ToppantoB]

Thank you all for the replies.
I'll definitely try to work on the setup and I won't give up. I think there is more in music quality than I've heard so far, so I'll investigate it more and I'll try to do it in the wise way from now on (testing before buying )

Cheers!

 

[Nostoi]

Thank you all for the replies.
I'll definitely try to work on the setup and I won't give up. I think there is more in music quality than I've heard so far, so I'll investigate it more and I'll try to do it in the wise way from now on (testing before buying )

Cheers!

Are you in Vienna as your profile suggests? Then there's plenty of excellent stores here where you can try our various gear, etc. I would forget about fiddling around VLC, etc, and just get yourself a basic DAP with enough headroom to power a pair of HD600s (the iFi Nano iDSD Black Label is way under-powered from memory). Otherwise, I would simply get a Chord Mojo and a pair of DT770s 80ohm. Very simple, very effective.

 

[ToppantoB]

Are you in Vienna as your profile suggests? Then there's plenty of excellent stores here where you can try our various gear, etc. I would forget about fiddling around VLC, etc, and just get yourself a basic DAP with enough headroom to power a pair of HD600s (the iFi Nano iDSD Black Label is way under-powered from memory). Otherwise, I would simply get a Chord Mojo and a pair of DT770s 80ohm. Very simple, very effective.

Yes, I'm in Vienna, could you give me some examples about the stores I could visit in the future? As I mentioned, I would really like to try out as much gears as possible.

 

[Nostoi]

Yes, I'm in Vienna, could you give me some examples about the stores I could visit in the future? As I mentioned, I would really like to try out as much gears as possible.

There are many, but here's one where you can try out some gear in a friendly atmosphere - https://kopfhoererboutique.com/ If you give the owner your budget, he'll help set you up. Watch the open hours, though.

 

[Nostoi]

Yes, I'm in Vienna, could you give me some examples about the stores I could visit in the future? As I mentioned, I would really like to try out as much gears as possible.

This is also run by a very nice chap - https://kopfhoererladen.at/privatelistening/shopoverview.xml?xmlserv_nc=1 He stocks a lot of Beyer.

 

[ToppantoB]

@Nostoi thank you so much for the suggestions!

 

[cytherian]

Are you in Vienna as your profile suggests? Then there's plenty of excellent stores here where you can try our various gear, etc. I would forget about fiddling around VLC, etc, and just get yourself a basic DAP with enough headroom to power a pair of HD600s (the iFi Nano iDSD Black Label is way under-powered from memory). Otherwise, I would simply get a Chord Mojo and a pair of DT770s 80ohm. Very simple, very effective.

I hope it's OK to jump in on this here, with a related question. Is the general conclusion that the only way to get excellent sound from portable audio devices (MP3/AAC/FLAC players, tablet, laptop, etc.) is to utilize a DAC? Even if you're not looking for high volume use, but want great sound quality at lower volumes?

I've definitely noticed that pathways can make a difference. I have the Avantree Audition headphones that are Bluetooth & wired capable. The sound it is different, depending upon which mode I'm in, and thus I have to wonder if the on board sound card is even utilized when going via Bluetooth.