nuhi
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- Mar 29, 2002
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This is digital out (S/PDIF) only comparison.
Prelude
After comparing digital output of Realtek AC97 onboard chip in Asus A8V Deluxe with Juli@ it was night and day...that was the main reason why I went along with this upgrade to 1212m which may seem overkill for some.
Equipment
- Cards and drivers: ESI Juli@ v1.18 (analog part removed), E-MU v1.8 (only digital card connected, only ASIO in mixer)
- PC Software: EAC, FLAC, Foobar2000 (ASIO out 24to32, empty DSP, replaygain)
- DAC: North Star DAC 192
- Headphones: Sennheiser HD580 (Rotel RA01 headphone out)
Info
Also you must know that ESI Juli@ costs ~30% less than EMU here, so I don't say this is a fair comparison, it's more like "is it worth the upgrade" thing.
For easy testing both cards were connected to the DAC at the same time, easily switching Input 1 and 2 with a push of a button.
And above all Juli@ is in my system for months so if there is any difference it will be picked up immediately.
Pictures
Pic #1
Both tested cards. Let this not makes you smile, while Juli@ digital part does looks small in comparison, when you take out unneeded DSP parts and connectors on E-mu card there would be drastically more similarity
Pic #2
Juli@ only digital part with brakeout cable. Yes it does work when you unplug analog part of the card
Pic #3
1212m digital card (1010)
1212m advantages
- No brakeout cable, connects directly (picture 2 shows how ugly brakeout cables are, infact may induce connection jitter)
- S/PDIF WDM Resampling. 1212m automatically uses SRC with software DirectSound support to make it up to selected rate in S/PDIF options. This helped me to run Quake 3, which has 22khz rate and DAC accepts from 44.1.
While this is advantage it's also a bad thing not being able to disable it (unless you use internal analog card or ASIO), just remember that most of the movies are at 48khz and 1212m resamples them to selected rate, in my case 44.1. I find it unacceptable to switch rate every time when switching from music to movies. I wonder why they don't implement that in driver to do automatically, such a pitty.
- Deeper bass, more treble, at first I thought there was some DSP at action, but mixer was cleared, session made from scratch and only ASIO added. Good thing I like the sound to be more "fat" than flat. But there seems more hiss as well...hmm I hope this will go away with more burn in. Someone said that 1212m has too high output signal voltage, for sure sounds like it.
- More details, music seems more powerfull, more impact. May be due to lack of brakeout cable, higher output voltage or simply better circuits.
- Cool'n'Quiet no longer makes noise. Sometimes after longer usage without restarting if AMD Cool'n'Quiet power saving is enabled Juli@ makes noise, with 1212m still haven't experienced it.
- Windows x64 driver support, volume control for digital out works, firmware upgradable.
Juli@ advantages
- Better DirectX and WAV support. With 1212m sometimes sound seems distorted, like it is too loud, but in mixer it's not. Juli@ sends all streams directly while 1212m resamples to selected rate (digital only case, and with ASIO it's ok).
ESI cards have this E-WDM driver thing which works and it's very small, big plus.
Since there is no ASIO output video players that I know of (don't mention winamp) Juli@ is better for video playback.
- Flat sound, seems more calm. With 1212m I have experience like someone turned on equalizer and raised bass and treble. Juli@ sounds more neutral despite the flat frequency response they both have in tests.
- Cheaper and very good for the price, maybe best buy.
Conclusion
It's entirely IMHO and with my equipment so no guarantees.
I don't prefer any of these companies nor any of the cards is bad, just different.
Any difference ? Again night and day, but this time it was more like dusk and day.
At first I thought wow 1212m sounds great, more alive...but after 3 days I find Juli@ to be more realistic, has less coloring, 1212m reminds me on Audigy which I own as well (hello resampler).
Seems to me that 1212m has output set too high - hence the "analytical" nature
Basically Juli@ surprised me, size in this case didn't matter. When they fix few issues like C'n'Q and lack of x64 driver it will be even closer fight.
Listening to 1212m is more fun at the moment so I'll keep an ear on this loudness issue for a few more days and then decide which to retire.
For the sake of confirming the investments did one more test.
Compared Juli@ alone (~160$ here) against the combo of 1212m + external DAC (~1400$ total) and while if you put some effort to hear the difference it is significant but I must admit it's not worth 9x the price.
No regrets after all.
Prelude
After comparing digital output of Realtek AC97 onboard chip in Asus A8V Deluxe with Juli@ it was night and day...that was the main reason why I went along with this upgrade to 1212m which may seem overkill for some.
Equipment
- Cards and drivers: ESI Juli@ v1.18 (analog part removed), E-MU v1.8 (only digital card connected, only ASIO in mixer)
- PC Software: EAC, FLAC, Foobar2000 (ASIO out 24to32, empty DSP, replaygain)
- DAC: North Star DAC 192
- Headphones: Sennheiser HD580 (Rotel RA01 headphone out)
Info
Also you must know that ESI Juli@ costs ~30% less than EMU here, so I don't say this is a fair comparison, it's more like "is it worth the upgrade" thing.
For easy testing both cards were connected to the DAC at the same time, easily switching Input 1 and 2 with a push of a button.
And above all Juli@ is in my system for months so if there is any difference it will be picked up immediately.
Pictures
Pic #1
Both tested cards. Let this not makes you smile, while Juli@ digital part does looks small in comparison, when you take out unneeded DSP parts and connectors on E-mu card there would be drastically more similarity
Pic #2
Juli@ only digital part with brakeout cable. Yes it does work when you unplug analog part of the card
Pic #3
1212m digital card (1010)
1212m advantages
- No brakeout cable, connects directly (picture 2 shows how ugly brakeout cables are, infact may induce connection jitter)
- S/PDIF WDM Resampling. 1212m automatically uses SRC with software DirectSound support to make it up to selected rate in S/PDIF options. This helped me to run Quake 3, which has 22khz rate and DAC accepts from 44.1.
While this is advantage it's also a bad thing not being able to disable it (unless you use internal analog card or ASIO), just remember that most of the movies are at 48khz and 1212m resamples them to selected rate, in my case 44.1. I find it unacceptable to switch rate every time when switching from music to movies. I wonder why they don't implement that in driver to do automatically, such a pitty.
- Deeper bass, more treble, at first I thought there was some DSP at action, but mixer was cleared, session made from scratch and only ASIO added. Good thing I like the sound to be more "fat" than flat. But there seems more hiss as well...hmm I hope this will go away with more burn in. Someone said that 1212m has too high output signal voltage, for sure sounds like it.
- More details, music seems more powerfull, more impact. May be due to lack of brakeout cable, higher output voltage or simply better circuits.
- Cool'n'Quiet no longer makes noise. Sometimes after longer usage without restarting if AMD Cool'n'Quiet power saving is enabled Juli@ makes noise, with 1212m still haven't experienced it.
- Windows x64 driver support, volume control for digital out works, firmware upgradable.
Juli@ advantages
- Better DirectX and WAV support. With 1212m sometimes sound seems distorted, like it is too loud, but in mixer it's not. Juli@ sends all streams directly while 1212m resamples to selected rate (digital only case, and with ASIO it's ok).
ESI cards have this E-WDM driver thing which works and it's very small, big plus.
Since there is no ASIO output video players that I know of (don't mention winamp) Juli@ is better for video playback.
- Flat sound, seems more calm. With 1212m I have experience like someone turned on equalizer and raised bass and treble. Juli@ sounds more neutral despite the flat frequency response they both have in tests.
- Cheaper and very good for the price, maybe best buy.
Conclusion
It's entirely IMHO and with my equipment so no guarantees.
I don't prefer any of these companies nor any of the cards is bad, just different.
Any difference ? Again night and day, but this time it was more like dusk and day.
At first I thought wow 1212m sounds great, more alive...but after 3 days I find Juli@ to be more realistic, has less coloring, 1212m reminds me on Audigy which I own as well (hello resampler).
Seems to me that 1212m has output set too high - hence the "analytical" nature
Basically Juli@ surprised me, size in this case didn't matter. When they fix few issues like C'n'Q and lack of x64 driver it will be even closer fight.
Listening to 1212m is more fun at the moment so I'll keep an ear on this loudness issue for a few more days and then decide which to retire.
For the sake of confirming the investments did one more test.
Compared Juli@ alone (~160$ here) against the combo of 1212m + external DAC (~1400$ total) and while if you put some effort to hear the difference it is significant but I must admit it's not worth 9x the price.
No regrets after all.