Digital out comparison. E-MU 1212m vs ESI Juli@
Oct 19, 2005 at 12:18 AM Post #31 of 42

chris719

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I agree, they failed from a communications standpoint. You are right that there ers were at 0.is no reason to output 24 bits if you are doing any processing or attenuating but I have a feeling that it was easier for them to just leave it that way and not have to detect a special case.
 
Oct 19, 2005 at 7:35 PM Post #32 of 42

Borat

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I don't entirely understand what everyone is saying here. Some of this stuff is over my head.
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Can someone just please tell me which soundcard is the best to use as a transport to an outboard DAC? ESI Juli@, E-MU 1212m, or Chaintech AV-710? Will there be noticeable differences between using any of the three (using glass optical cable and no mods on the cards)?

Also, I can't tell from the pics, does the ESI Juli@ have TOSlink output on the actual digital card or do you have to use coax out from the breakout cable?

Thanks in advance.
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 12:38 AM Post #33 of 42

johto

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Esi Juli@ has digital in / out with spdif in brakeout, and toslink(optical) digital out in the card.
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 3:13 AM Post #34 of 42

chris719

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I have no experience with the juli or the chaintech, but the emu1212m should be better than the chaintech at least. Question is why do you want to use toslink? It is inferior to coax, and I do believe the emu is transformer coupled so there is no worry about isolation, if not you can get a pulse transformer from digikey and put it in the dac.
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 1:19 PM Post #35 of 42

johto

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Quote:

Originally Posted by chris719
I have no experience with the juli or the chaintech, but the emu1212m should be better than the chaintech at least. Question is why do you want to use toslink? It is inferior to coax, and I do believe the emu is transformer coupled so there is no worry about isolation, if not you can get a pulse transformer from digikey and put it in the dac.


Toslink inferior to coax? And you say this why?
 
Oct 20, 2005 at 3:24 PM Post #36 of 42

springtide

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johto
Toslink inferior to coax? And you say this why?


Not sure why (jitter maybe), but coax is considered better quality that Optical SPDIF. I think Optical SPDIF is only rated up to 24bit 96Khz where as Coaxial supports 24bit 192Khz

I've never understood it. We push 2Gbit/sec down "Multi-Mode" Fibre for our IT storage (error free obviously), so why such low data rates are a problem with Digital HiFi I have no idea.

And as for "jitter", I've never understood why the data isn't transmitted at a higher rate and cached before it hits the DAC - obviously this can't be done for real-time editing, but playback shouldn't be a problem should it?

Maybe there's someone here who can educate me a little
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Oct 20, 2005 at 8:04 PM Post #38 of 42

springtide

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Quote:

Originally Posted by hungrych
Optical is far better for PC use, the amount of electrical noise inside a computer just kills coax.


Not strictly true, since it's "good old copper track" right up until it leaves the card. By the time it's optical, it's pretty much outside of the case anyway.

(Correct me if someones knows better) but the issues with optical are supposed to be related to delays introduced by the the electrical -> optical interface - although there are also varying degree's of quality of the interfaces. The signal quality issues with digital are related to "jitter" (timing) and not with electrical noise.
You'll get more electrical noise from "crosstalk" on the physical board. This is hopefully "designed out" by seperating critical signal paths from each other using CAD design tools.
 
Oct 28, 2008 at 10:10 AM Post #40 of 42

FallenAngel

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorander /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Warning: Thread bump.
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I recently obtained a 1212M and planned to replace my existing Revolution 7.1 with it. The card will be connected to an outboard DAC via co-axial. After reading this thread though, I am having second thoughts now (don't even know if the Revo has bit-perfect digital output). Any suggestions?

Cheers!



What exactly are you having seconds thoughts about and why exactly are you replacing the Revolution 7.1?

Both offer bit-perfect S/PDIF through their pulse-transformer coupled coax S/PDIF jacks.

I really don't know if you'll be getting any upgrade from the switch unless one is better clocked than the other, then we can get into the whole jitter argument, but as it stands, the coax S/PDIF looks to be implemented very well with the exception of RCA and not BNC.
 
Oct 28, 2008 at 10:47 AM Post #41 of 42

Zorander

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Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif
What exactly are you having seconds thoughts about and why exactly are you replacing the Revolution 7.1?

Both offer bit-perfect S/PDIF through their pulse-transformer coupled coax S/PDIF jacks.

I really don't know if you'll be getting any upgrade from the switch unless one is better clocked than the other, then we can get into the whole jitter argument, but as it stands, the coax S/PDIF looks to be implemented very well with the exception of RCA and not BNC.



Thanks for the reply.

I did not originally get the 1212M to replace the Revo but rather to try the E-MU out of curiosity. I admit to now having the thoughts of switching to the E-MU (new toy syndrome) but this thread is giving me the impression that it may not be an upgrade or even a side grade. I guess the only way to find which I prefer is to try them both myself (not looking forward to lifting up that back-breaking P180 Antec case however).

One more thing: you have been mentioning "pulse-transformers" for digital output stages. What exactly is it? Is this a common feature with PC sound cards?

Thanks!
 
Oct 28, 2008 at 6:33 PM Post #42 of 42

FallenAngel

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A pulse transformer is designed to accurately transmit rectangular pulses at a set amplitude, perfect for digital data. It is the best way (as far as I know) to send and receive S/PDIF over coax. The better sources (sound cards, CD players, etc) will have the coax S/PDIF transformer-coupled, lower end stuff doesn't. Both of the sound cards you mentioned do.
 

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