[KevM2]

I was curious just how drastic the differences are between different price ranges of amps. I know that tubes have a different sound than solid state, but is there a significant difference in sound quality between the price ranges of amps or is it more of a 'getting the fine details out' sort of ordeal? For example, how do the EF1, Little Dot MKIII and other $300 to $400 amps compare in sound to the $600 and up range of the Woo Audio 6, Raptors, etc., and how do those compare in sound quality to $2000 and up such as Zana Deux, and finally, how does that compare to the B52? Is the jump in sound something that transforms the headphones or is the money being spent in getting every last fine detail?

 

[BobMajor]

I moved up from the Max 2004 model to the Zana Deux. I wasn't expecting a night and day difference so I was totally unprepared for the tremendous improvement.
Now, I listen to classical recordings almost exclusively. So that means I'm trying to get the finest ambient details of these accoustical recordings.
The ZD delivers stunning realism. The Max was about $1800 new and I paid $1900 for the ZD.
I consider the ZD and awesome bargain.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevM2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was curious just how drastic the differences are between different price ranges of amps. I know that tubes have a different sound than solid state, but is there a significant difference in sound quality between the price ranges of amps or is it more of a 'getting the fine details out' sort of ordeal? For example, how do the EF1, Little Dot MKIII and other $300 to $400 amps compare in sound to the $600 and up range of the Woo Audio 6, Raptors, etc., and how do those compare in sound quality to $2000 and up such as Zana Deux, and finally, how does that compare to the B52? Is the jump in sound something that transforms the headphones or is the money being spent in getting every last fine detail?

You are asking a question that very few people can honestly answer. Most people if they have heard all these amps, highly unlikely, at most sampled them and have never done any in depth comparisons. Moreover, going from even an expensive SS amp to a moderately priced tube amp can be eye opening.

I currently have about 15 tubed headamps in my collection. I have had another 7-8 tube amps I have bought and sold for various reasons and many SS amps have also since departed. I have heard not every one of these amps. However, because I collect headamps I buy the amps and generally keep them long term and hence get to know them very well. I have found price point is only part of the equation.

Some manufacturers just make better sounding amps. I know myself I didnt think the entry level priced Woo 3 I had compared well sonically with my slightly more expensive Singlepower PPX3 .... and I much prefer to have any PPX3, especially a PPX3 SLAM, more than even some more expensive tube amps like the Raptor that cost hundreds more. Conversely, specifically for low impedance Grados .... the $100 Millet Starving Student hybrids are just excellent.

Just counting tube amps I have owned the Woo 3 and 6, Mapletree Ear+, Mapletree SE, Eddie Current HD300, Bottlehead Sex, Doge 6210 x 2, Sound Quest SQ-84, Millet Starving Student x 2, multiple Singlepowers ..... PPX3/ MPX3 / Extreme/ Supra/ Mini-Tube prototype etc... There are definite differences in the sound quality and reliability but most amps sound atleast good.

I have had trouble with lower priced amps reliability. The stock Doge 6210 was junk. I had to have the amp completely rebuilt. Even after the rebuild the poorly designed imput circuit kept causing issues and I had the input circuit redesigned and rebuilt a second time before the amp worked correctly. My second Doge was basically stock with a few power supply mods and after about 200-300 hours this amp has started arching and is now siting idle awaiting repair. The Woo 3, bought new, I had was noisy no matter what I did and I sold the amp. The Woo 6 was much better in this regard but I dont think this amp sounds very good at all stock .... I was very disappointed with the Woo 6 and this amp has since been sold. The inexpensive DIY Bottlehead Sex is a much better amp than the Woos, IMO, but you have to build them

Moving up in price I loved the little PPX3 that was around $450 when I bought mine. The SLAM version is even better and again when I bought the amp was around $749-799. My used PPX3 SLAMs cost around $600. The Mapletees are good amps but the price has risen just like with the PPX3 and for the $$$ difference I will take the PPX3 everytime. I like this amp so well I have three with slightly different options and upgrades.

The Sound Quest SQ-84 is a 10 watt integrated amp with an excellent headphone section. For the price this amp is absolutely an excellent value. The only downside is nos tubes for the amp can be pricey and hard to find and to get the best from the amp you need good tubes. I have since remedied that with some inexpensive nos subs, that no one seemed to know about, that sound great. I like this amp alot and I dont see my selling this one possibly ever.

When you move up to the more expensive Singlepower MPX3 SLAM and the even more expensive Supras I believe you do get more music. There is more soundstage size, better bass extension and improved dynamic contrasts etc.... But, for pure musical enjoyment I dont know that I enjoy these amps more than the supremely musical PPX3 SLAM. But I cant deny that they offer improvements. My high voltage Supra is the best amp I have ever heard bar none. This one is worth every penny they cost, although if I had not bought the amp used I doubt I would have spent the money on a new one. I am to content with the PPX3 SLAM and a few others to justify the price in most circumstances.

The Singlepower Extreme is another great sounding amp around $1400 ??? these days that I particularly like because it has so much power to go along with its musicality. I have been experimenting with some of the old Orthodynamic headphones that are VERY difficult to drive. The Extreme drives any of headphone .... high impedance/ low impedance/ low sensitivity doesnt. For someone who likes to use lots of different headphones this Extremes flexibility is so useful. So, in this case price and sound quality have another added dimension.

I bought a Zana Deux recently but unfortunately the amp arrived damaged and I didnt end up keeping the amp. I dont think this amp is any better sounding than the stock SP Extreme, is not as powerful, uses more expensive tubes and certainly costs more. But, those 6c33 output tubes are so cool looking and the build quality is first rate. So, once again maybe sound isnt always everything, although the ZD is surely very good sounding.

So to summarize, yes there are several differences among tube amps as you go up in price .... sound quality, build quality, power output, tube cost and appearance etc.... Yes, there is a big jump in sound quality with some amps. But, they dont always have to be the most expensive amp. This will sound contradictory .... but sometimes price makes a big difference and sometimes not. Obviously I believe some less expensive amps are better sounding than some expensive ones. But, my best sounding amp is, in the end, the most expensive one I own. Still, I could live happily ever after with a PPX3 SLAM.

 

[Happy Camper]

I had a Xin portable and was very happy with it's performance with my etys. I bought a desktop amp to serve as my rock to build a hp listening rig around. I compared the etys on both amps and was very disappointed to hear very little difference at almost 10x the price.

I then started buying full sized hps. As the potential of hp got better, the differences between the amps became more noticable. The addage that you have to have a quality front end to fully hear the performance of an amp is so true. I took my amps to a mini meet with better sources and I was again impressed with the differences between them. If you can afford a higher cost amp, you will more likely than not get a better sounding one.

 

[KevM2]

Awesome, detailed impressions fellas! I know one of the biggest things I have to consider before jumping into another amp is what sound I'm looking for. However, I was just curious if the upgrade between amp price classes was something that could provide a night and day difference in sound or if it was more of squeezing every last bit of juice out of the orange, no matter how expensive.

 

[Lunchbox2]

I'd like to know the difference between a CMOY or Millett and a MK3. I wonder if the DIY types can compete into that 2-300 dollar range.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunchbox2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wonder if the DIY types can compete into that 2-300 dollar range.

DIY often is as good as or better than commercial designs, especially the projects that have been openly discussed and worked over here and at HeadWize. Designs tend to be better with many eyeballs. If you go through the projects, you'll notice lots of little revisions and updates as people find problems, vet them, fix them, incorporate them into the project, and so on. Design isn't just a stroke of genius by a designer. Amps are usually coaxed into greatness through tweaking and revision. When you have hundreds of people doing this, the designs tend towards excellence. Don't think you're giving up anything with a DIY amp. The "lone genius" myth is powerful, where you have on brilliant person who makes exceptional designs. That can happen, but it's much, much, much more likely that excellent products result from continual refinement and the power of groups. Toyota (arguably) builds the best cars - look at how they collaborate and continually refine. Look at how excellent Linux is. It's come a lot way since I started using it, but it becomes more refined and polished every year. Amps are the same way, though that's not quite as sexy as the brilliant guy who does everything himself.

As for the OP... really, it depends. In a sense, yes. There are amps that transform the way headphones sound. However, you can't figure that out by price alone.

So many people here are just bent on divvying gear up by price. Look at the "high end source owner" threads and similar, where a number gets you admission.

Paying X amount of dollars is no guarantee that the piece of gear will be any good. Some gear is built by engineers who price it fairly and some gear is built by salesmen who glitz it up, rile the fanboys and charge what the market will bear.

If you want a good amp, you need to do your homework. Most important, read up on power supplies. They're critical. The focus at Head-Fi is usually on tuberolling, but quality iron and power supply design are everything. The designer should either be someone who knows what he's doing or it should be a build of a well-vetted DIY design that's been around for a few years, so you know the bugs are out. Also, take a hard look at the design and layout.

Finally, do not make a decision based on marketing copy found on the seller's website. That language is there for the sole purpose of selling a product.

Even if you're not interested in DIY, it pays to read the DIY Forum and learn as much as you can. Ask questions about the best way to lay out and build an amp. Ask about the best tubes, which ones produce which kind of sound, classes of amps, types of circuits, anything that you want to know. You'll learn a lot. This is the only way to decide whether an amp is worth buying. Or maybe build one yourself. They're not that difficult - anyone with dedication can see one through. Don't worry about your skills, you can pick them up along the way.