[SnowFalls]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who babies my headphones!
I don't feel so weird now. haha

~Robert

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 
 
I definitely agree with you... I was looking for a comment addressing this issue and i found exactly what i suspected. The D7000 is quite poor with the midrange, upper in particular. Compared to my K701. Even if you make allowances that it still is a closed headphone... it doesnt justify the drop seen beyond 1000hz. Diana Krall sounded rather dark and undefined. As if she had lost her voice.
 
http://graphs.headphone.com/graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=283&graphID[]=703
 
Also, if you compare the overall performance of the bass you will see that the K701 extends much much further into lower frequencies with a smaller loss of intensity. Despite some people saying the K701 lacks in bass, I preferred the K701s sub bass.. and its upper bass (which is super tight) compared to the D7000. Regarding the soundstage.. if this is considered a good soundstage on closed headphone, I probably wont be buying one any time soon. Still, comparing it to the K701 makes no sense, but soundstage really started to matter to me ever since I got them. What probably sounds better on the Denon is the treble which can get rather annoying on the AKGs sometimes.
 
I am couple of days from getting my Schiit Lyr and Bifrost (hopefully, lets not jinx it now) which would complete my first ever rig! Lenovo Laptop => Bifrost USB => Lyr => K701! I also started looking for closed cans, which is my next step on the path to enlightenment 

. That is how I came across the Denons. Tried them in a Denon/Marantz store in Dubai Mall, and I had the sallesman braking my balls for one hour about, how they are the best headphones in the world. This probably contributed to me staying away from them.
 
They probably are good closed cans, however if they really are the best closed, i will be staying off closed cans forever. And there is the price 1000... well dont get me wrong dynamic friends, but I would definitely buy a JH13 many times over any 1000 usd can which sounds even slightly better.
 

 
Looking at that graph I'm really glad I got d5k and not d7k.   I thought D7k was the refined D5k when, by that graph, it's really the refined D2k and D5k stands alone. 
 
I agree with you about K70x's bass.  It's really hard to describe, but I never found it to be a bass-light headphone.   HD650 is bass-light, not K70x.  It doesn't have the presence of a Denon but it does have shocking extension.  There's nothing wrong with liking multiple signatures (I love K702, HD650, D5k, and HE-400) but if you're a big fan of the AKG sound, there's nothing else like it.  It's almost ruler-flat.  And Lyr + Bifrost + K70x should make you very, very happy

 

[TMRaven]

Quote:

 HD650 is bass-light, not K70x.  It doesn't have the presence of a Denon but it does have shocking extension.  

 

  Does not compute.
 

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 

  Does not compute.
 

Try pulling up the K702 graph.  That K701 graph is ancient and goes back to the older drivers that of course haven't been officially changed. I believe newer K701's also match the K702 graph, not this ancient one.
 
The K702 graph, last time I saw it in a Q701 thread next to HD650 was visibly flatter into the extension without rolling off so quickly.
 
I also wonder if that HD650 graph is for the original black damping version.  Over 3 sets of HD650/drivers with silver screens I've had (including my new replacement set I installed last night), that huge midbass hump in no way matches what they are producing, but it does match what I've heard of the old black screens that, of course, didn't change the sound signature at all. 
 
Across both my 6 y/o drivers made in 2006 drivers and my brand spanking new ones made Jan 2012, there are sub-bass frequencies that are virtually inaudible on them on a handful of electronic music tracks I test with.  Those frequences are clearly audible on K702.   And, of course, extremely present in HE-400 and D5k.

 

[TMRaven]

 
 

 
 
As for the HD650 graph, I do think it is the black version.  The silver version doesn't sound like that it sounds more like halfway between their HD650 and 600 graphs.

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 
 

 
 
As for the HD650 graph, I do think it is the black version.  The silver version doesn't sound like that it sounds more like halfway between their HD650 and 600 graphs.

 
That looks better.   And yes, I agree about the black vs. silver.  There's no way the silver has bass anywhere near there versus K702 at 10-30Hz.  The midbass hump is semi-accurate, but looks way too large here. This graph shows bloat.  Silver isn't bloated.
 
Despite Senn claiming that the damping change made no acoustic difference and was purely manufacturing related, I remember when the change first happened.  Looking at the dates stamped on the drivers I believe my silvers were from the very first batch of silvers (July of '06.) Those drivers are dead now, but I don't notice useful difference on the new ones going by month old memory.  I remember what the marketing page on the Senn site said at the time, something about modern tastes in music preferring more bass, and the HD650 taking the ultimate clarity of the HD600 but with a bass-accented signature modern music fans prefer.  Sometime shortly after that page was changed to read what it now says about being the ultimate audiophile experience, with refinements from their top of the line HD600.  All references to the huge bass were removed.   Right after the black to silver screen change.

 

[mikiphile]

Quote:

 

  Does not compute.
 

 
To be honest, I hvent heard the 650s but from what I read and from what I see, they should have a sensational bass. Cant compare it to the K70X, but its definitely more present at least.
 
Quote:

Try pulling up the K702 graph.  That K701 graph is ancient and goes back to the older drivers that of course haven't been officially changed. I believe newer K701's also match the K702 graph, not this ancient one.
 
The K702 graph, last time I saw it in a Q701 thread next to HD650 was visibly flatter into the extension without rolling off so quickly.
 
I also wonder if that HD650 graph is for the original black damping version.  Over 3 sets of HD650/drivers with silver screens I've had (including my new replacement set I installed last night), that huge midbass hump in no way matches what they are producing, but it does match what I've heard of the old black screens that, of course, didn't change the sound signature at all. 
 
Across both my 6 y/o drivers made in 2006 drivers and my brand spanking new ones made Jan 2012, there are sub-bass frequencies that are virtually inaudible on them on a handful of electronic music tracks I test with.  Those frequences are clearly audible on K702.   And, of course, extremely present in HE-400 and D5k.

 
I think I can agree with you on this one. I think the newer K701s have different drivers. Even if you compare some pictures, you will see drivers that are shaped differently. Since I have the new ones, and simply cannot find the sound totally dry and unbearably bright as it is often described here.  I recently tried an older K701 which to my ears, sounded very dry, even though it was driven from a Schiit Lyr with CV2492 mullard tubes. The ones I have at home (new model) are significantly better even when driven from an SS receiver. As for the "AKG" sound, I am sad that the only real AKG ive heard is the K1000. I wouldnt consider the K701s real AKG cans, even though they are my favourites.
 
Looking forward to hear my K701s with my new Schiit Lyr + Bifrost combo.
 
Anyways, lets not derail this thread. The admins are quite mad at me i think.
 
I will definitely try the D5k. Since I think I need a closed can. I hope they sound like the D7k. I mean, if they are significantly cheaper I might consider them.

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 
To be honest, I hvent heard the 650s but from what I read and from what I see, they should have a sensational bass. Cant compare it to the K70X, but its definitely more present at least.
 
 
I think I can agree with you on this one. I think the newer K701s have different drivers. Even if you compare some pictures, you will see drivers that are shaped differently. Since I have the new ones, and simply cannot find the sound totally dry and unbearably bright as it is often described here.  I recently tried an older K701 which to my ears, sounded very dry, even though it was driven from a Schiit Lyr with CV2492 mullard tubes. The ones I have at home (new model) are significantly better even when driven from an SS receiver. As for the "AKG" sound, I am sad that the only real AKG ive heard is the K1000. I wouldnt consider the K701s real AKG cans, even though they are my favourites.
 
Looking forward to hear my K701s with my new Schiit Lyr + Bifrost combo.
 
Anyways, lets not derail this thread. The admins are quite mad at me i think.
 
I will definitely try the D5k. Since I think I need a closed can. I hope they sound like the D7k. I mean, if they are significantly cheaper I might consider them.

 
That HD650 graph, presumably from the black screen doesn't quite match modern silver screened ones.  They have phenomenal mid-bass, yes.  But not the great extension of sub-bass that K70x has, nor the great extension + prominence that the whole Denon line has. HD650 is all about the mids. At least the version with the silver screen.
 
K702 has been around for over 5 years, and K701 has been around longer...8 or so? That predates the Harman buyout by quite a bit, and Q701 are just a tweak upon the former.  All three have been exclusively made in-house in Austria.  How aren't they real AKGs?

   Compared to HD650 and HE400 I do consider the AKGs very dry.  They aren't bright so much as ruler flat, the trouble is that they don't roll off significantly until well into UHF, so the high end can be fatiguing.  That's both one of their strengths and weaknesses.  They fatigue a little fast, but they present you with everything.
 
D5k is probably the most K702-like in my lineup, yet not. There's a lot more bass presence and a bit more meat on the mids and a warmer tone overall.  Looking at the graph above, D7k is more v-shaped with a more recessed mid than D5k, so it would be very different than the generally flat with a lot of sparkle D5k.  I see from that graph while I've seen folks in other threads say they liked D7k for rock, but D5k for jazz & classical.  For my music, I got the right one.

 

[dukeskd]

The HD650 sucked big time for bass-heavy genres for me.

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

The HD650 sucked big time for bass-heavy genres for me.

Yeah, that's a pretty fair assessment for such genres.  They roll off highs and lows on purpose. As I said, "lounge-metal"

 

[dukeskd]

Quote:

Yeah, that's a pretty fair assessment for such genres.  They roll off highs and lows on purpose. As I said, "lounge-metal"

I enjoy them the most on the D7ks and the LCD-2s, and then the HD800 even more than the 650, and that says something.

 

[mikiphile]

Quote:

 
That HD650 graph, presumably from the black screen doesn't quite match modern silver screened ones.  They have phenomenal mid-bass, yes.  But not the great extension of sub-bass that K70x has, nor the great extension + prominence that the whole Denon line has. HD650 is all about the mids. At least the version with the silver screen.
 
K702 has been around for over 5 years, and K701 has been around longer...8 or so? That predates the Harman buyout by quite a bit, and Q701 are just a tweak upon the former.  All three have been exclusively made in-house in Austria.  How aren't they real AKGs?

   Compared to HD650 and HE400 I do consider the AKGs very dry.  They aren't bright so much as ruler flat, the trouble is that they don't roll off significantly until well into UHF, so the high end can be fatiguing.  That's both one of their strengths and weaknesses.  They fatigue a little fast, but they present you with everything.
 
D5k is probably the most K702-like in my lineup, yet not. There's a lot more bass presence and a bit more meat on the mids and a warmer tone overall.  Looking at the graph above, D7k is more v-shaped with a more recessed mid than D5k, so it would be very different than the generally flat with a lot of sparkle D5k.  I see from that graph while I've seen folks in other threads say they liked D7k for rock, but D5k for jazz & classical.  For my music, I got the right one.

 
Yea.. well 

. No question bout the Made in Austria thingy. Even my K242 HDs are made in Austria, which for most people in the States are Made in China. When I was flying through Vienna, Austria (i transit there very often, its a lovely experience, on my way to college in Switzerland) I was being checked by security and the guy saw my cans (K242s), Im like made in Austria. He was like, thumbs up, AKG is the best!
 
Glad to see someone appreciating the K70Xs. I had the opportunity to listen to some true high end stuff a week ago: HE-6, K1000, Stax SR-009, some Joseph Grados including the legendary HP1000 (i believe).. etc. I am definitely pleased by how a decent Hifi can compares to the higher end stuff.
 
So.. given the encouragement i got from you.. i will be trying the D5ks. 

 

[Zombie_X]

The K701 and K702 are really nice headphones. Not really accurate or flat, but are a fun listen. They also scale with an amp. There is a point where some people have them paired with a $1000 amp. That to me is a bit too much as they are not that hard to power at all. Sure they are more difficult than their impedance suggests, but it's not like you need a beasty amp for them. I always thought the Little-Dot 1+ did a nice job with them.
 
As for the D7000 and D5000, I slightly preferred the D5000's bass, but the D7000 is the better headphone overall. The D7000 has nice punchy bass, smooth highs, and a nice midrange. I never felt their bass was "throbbing" though. The bass always sounded a tad subdued to me. There was not a whole lot of impact but the extension and low level rumble was great. The D5000 has more midbass to my ears and is more satisfying to listen to. The bass is not as controlled as the D7000, but doing a partial markl mod can help that.
 
Also did you know the D5000 and D2000 use the same driver? They are tune slightly different from my understanding though. The D7000 is not worth $1000 though IMO, but more around $500. They are a little bit overpriced for me. Please don't hate me.
 
 
Quote:

 
Yea.. well 

. No question bout the Made in Austria thingy. Even my K242 HDs are made in Austria, which for most people in the States are Made in China. When I was flying through Vienna, Austria (i transit there very often, its a lovely experience, on my way to college in Switzerland) I was being checked by security and the guy saw my cans (K242s), Im like made in Austria. He was like, thumbs up, AKG is the best!
 
Glad to see someone appreciating the K70Xs. I had the opportunity to listen to some true high end stuff a week ago: HE-6, K1000, Stax SR-009, some Joseph Grados including the legendary HP1000 (i believe).. etc. I am definitely pleased by how a decent Hifi can compares to the higher end stuff.
 
So.. given the encouragement i got from you.. i will be trying the D5ks. 

 

[darkfireblade25]

Are these hard to drive? the sensitivity is high and the impedence is low so i would imagine that this is easy to drive. (unless i'm getting my facts wrong).

 

[KG Jag]

Quote:

Are these hard to drive? the sensitivity is high and the impedence is low so i would imagine that this is easy to drive. (unless i'm getting my facts wrong).

 
To drive the D7000 properly (D5000 too), you will need to amp it a bit.  When you hear the sound stage increase and clarity between musical voices come to the front, you'll know that you have reached the right level of amping for these cans.