[Joriarty]

OK... my AH-D2000's sound pretty damn good through my Macbook. They might benefit from an amp, but in comparison to my father's $6000 stereo setup, they sound pretty damn good. Volume is perfectly fine... the headphones are perfectly capable of deafening me. They do not require amplification, they are 25 Ohm impedance, and a pair of earphones is 32, well within the Macbook built in amp's tolerances. I do not doubt that the Macbook cannot drive them to the full volume they are capable of, therefore maybe I'm not getting optimum sound quality, but they still sound very good.

The stereo is quite a warm, mellow sound, as was his preference, but the headphones are articulate and slightly laid-back, still warm enough for me. Sibilance in an audio recording can be brought out VERY slightly by the headphones, but I haven't encountered anything at all unlistenable yet, it just sounds a tiny tiny bit sharper than natural at times. I can tolerate it, and TBH I've heard much worse on the same recordings through different setups.

So perhaps they are a slightly "sharp" and harsh sounding, but to my young ears they do not fatigue me. But they're a damn lot better than an old pair of Stax Electrets, which were quite respectable in their time. Not a perfect pair of cans, but nothing is, and with an amp, or even an EQ, you could probably colour the sound a bit more to your tastes.

I would recommend you get the D2000's if you can a) afford them and b) do not need the portability of the D1001's. The D2000's are more comfortable with superior sound (more flat frequency response with full base. IMO not overpowered once broken in), at the cost of price and portability. That's the difference between them... if you don't need the portability and can afford the 2000's, get the 2000's. Unless you really prefer a warm, mellow sound, you'll need to find some way to work around that or buy different phones.

And if I got to pick any headphones in the world that I could have... as long as they were around D2000 price or under, I would pick the D2000's. Simple as that. They sound fantastic through my Macbook and my MP3 player (an old Creative, not iPod, sorry), and there's only room for improvement.

Whichever pair you buy, buy them off "hifionline" on Trademe if you want to save a lot of money. He is actually Easternhifi's wholesaler... my D2000's cost $325 off him and retail for an outrageous $999. If he doesn't have any headphones up at the time, ask him to get some up and he should be able to.

 

[jonathanjong]

I've bought the D1001s already (and then unexpectedly had some extra cash, so went to buy a Corda 2Move...for the future. Don't really need it now.), but the D2000s are definitely next. They are probably the highest end I'd go, though. Are they much bigger than 1001?

 

[majkel]

Saying 25 ohm headphones don't need decent amplification is posting crap. Loud does not mean well controlled. High sound pressure does not mean high dynamics. To achieve dynamic and well extended sound on low impedance headphones you need lots of current (for high impedance it's voltage instead) which SS power stage (not Cmoy-like toys) or transformer coupled tube amplifiers may provide.
Coming back to the topic - recabled D1001's sound better than stock D5000 and my friend even left them (actually Creative Aurvana Live! which are the same headphones) for himself after auditioning of the MD5000's. It's all the matter of the cable choice. Grado cable improves much, Conducfil Sonolene 3014 improves even more (use two) others - I don't care at current sound quality level so didn't try.

 

[jonathanjong]

What do you think the best "bang for the buck" cable is, majkel? At some point, I might ask if stevenkelby would do it for me. As I've said in previous thread, I'm a bit wary of doing it myself. However, I am curious...

Also, about amping. So, it's not just about providing more power? Then, what determines whether and how much a set of cans will benefit from amping?

 

[majkel]

Take the HD650 one, Steven should know what modifications are to apply.

Regarding amplification: to obtain power you need voltage and current multiplied. Amps have both factors limited. Low voltage amps, especially some ultra-portable don't match well with high impedance 'phones. OTL tube amps aren't able to squeeze much current from the output tubes to satisfy low impedance headphones. The best judgment factor is to let headphones play loud and observe if they distort the sound - if not, there is still some power reserve from the amp. Second factor is bass shaking - if you fill strong diaphragm movements causing all the headphones to tremble - then there is enough juice to drive them. When they're just loud but without other signs of life, they're not well amped.

 

[tetris99]

d2000 or nothing

 

[spronkey]

Are they really that much better? $160NZD for D1001s vs $335 for D2000s big difference..... I was planning on selling my SR-80s and HD280Pros (~$400 combined in these parts) and getting back over $200.....

The D2000s look so hot though. :|

 

[Joriarty]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Saying 25 ohm headphones don't need decent amplification is posting crap. Loud does not mean well controlled. High sound pressure does not mean high dynamics. To achieve dynamic and well extended sound on low impedance headphones you need lots of current (for high impedance it's voltage instead) which SS power stage (not Cmoy-like toys) or transformer coupled tube amplifiers may provide. Coming back to the topic - recabled D1001's sound better than stock D5000 and my friend even left them (actually Creative Aurvana Live! which are the same headphones) for himself after auditioning of the MD5000's. It's all the matter of the cable choice. Grado cable improves much, Conducfil Sonolene 3014 improves even more (use two) others - I don't care at current sound quality level so didn't try.

True, maybe I gave the wrong impression... I know that underpowering things can both damage the equipment and the sound quality. But to me they don't seem like they are underpowered. High sound pressure might not mean high dynamics, but if they can blast a good volume and still sound good (the dynamics are definitely there), would it not indicate that they are amply powered? But perhaps the Apple computers have better sound circuitry than most... of course a computer will never be as good as a dedicated DAC and amp as well as a dedicated source. But sometimes there is a cost-benefit limit to consider...

Jonathan - I think the D2000's are bigger than the 1001's. Not sure how much, but the 2000's aren't portables. They aren't unwieldy, but definitely too chunky to walk down the street wearing them

I think the cups are a bit bigger (they're perfectly round), and perhaps deeper. They have a thick 3m cord too (3.5mm connector, but have a screw-on 6.3mm adapter). Rough dimensions of D2000 I just measured are, for the cups, 10cm circumference, 4-5cm deep depending on earpad taper. Weigh 350g w/o cord, 1001's weigh 180g.

But if you already purchased a pair of D1001's, it may not be worth buying D2000's. Not sure what your situation is, if you have a full-blown stereo setup or can't for whatever reason. But save your money... the jump probably isn't worth it given what you have already spent, unless you can sell the 1001's for a good price.

My advice would be to keep the 1001's and upgrade to something even better later on down the track. If you keep buying equipment all the time you'll waste money and never find time to actually enjoy the music.

 

[jonathanjong]

spronkey: It's not doubly as good, I don't think...

Joriarty: Yea, I just picked up a 2Move too. More for the future though, 'cos I could get them at a good price. None of my cans really need amping at the mo. I'll probably move up from the D1001s in a few years.

 

[TheThrane]

jonathanjong how are you finding the D1001 now? are they good or do you regret that you didn't buy the D2000? I'm currently in the same situation as you were back there

 

[Butter123]

Now the denon d1001 is disconnected, but it still lives on in the form of creative aurvana live! I have the D2000 markl mod with mogami recable and the aurvana live with similar markl mod and canare recable. I can say the modded aurvana live is 90% of a stock d2000, however I find the stock D2000 have a harsher and sibilant sound than the aurvana live, but the D2000 have really deep sub bass frequency and overall more airy sound. The D2000 really needs a recable to tone down the sibilant and improve the overall sound quality. 

 

[Butter123]

OK... my AH-D2000's sound pretty damn good through my Macbook. They might benefit from an amp, but in comparison to my father's $6000 stereo setup, they sound pretty damn good. Volume is perfectly fine... the headphones are perfectly capable of deafening me. They do not require amplification, they are 25 Ohm impedance, and a pair of earphones is 32, well within the Macbook built in amp's tolerances. I do not doubt that the Macbook cannot drive them to the full volume they are capable of, therefore maybe I'm not getting optimum sound quality, but they still sound very good.

The stereo is quite a warm, mellow sound, as was his preference, but the headphones are articulate and slightly laid-back, still warm enough for me. Sibilance in an audio recording can be brought out VERY slightly by the headphones, but I haven't encountered anything at all unlistenable yet, it just sounds a tiny tiny bit sharper than natural at times. I can tolerate it, and TBH I've heard much worse on the same recordings through different setups.

So perhaps they are a slightly "sharp" and harsh sounding, but to my young ears they do not fatigue me. But they're a damn lot better than an old pair of Stax Electrets, which were quite respectable in their time. Not a perfect pair of cans, but nothing is, and with an amp, or even an EQ, you could probably colour the sound a bit more to your tastes.

I would recommend you get the D2000's if you can a) afford them and b) do not need the portability of the D1001's. The D2000's are more comfortable with superior sound (more flat frequency response with full base. IMO not overpowered once broken in), at the cost of price and portability. That's the difference between them... if you don't need the portability and can afford the 2000's, get the 2000's. Unless you really prefer a warm, mellow sound, you'll need to find some way to work around that or buy different phones.

And if I got to pick any headphones in the world that I could have... as long as they were around D2000 price or under, I would pick the D2000's. Simple as that. They sound fantastic through my Macbook and my MP3 player (an old Creative, not iPod, sorry), and there's only room for improvement.

Whichever pair you buy, buy them off "hifionline" on Trademe if you want to save a lot of money. He is actually Easternhifi's wholesaler... my D2000's cost $325 off him and retail for an outrageous $999. If he doesn't have any headphones up at the time, ask him to get some up and he should be able to.

Yes the Denon D2000/D5000/D8000 are very efficient where higher end headphones are dominated by >150ohm impedance. The stock Macbook would have a enough power, however an aftermarket USB DAC would help a lot, mainly the DAC part as those bio-cellulose drivers are very efficient.