[dougms3]

Believe what you want, for myself I am pretty sure (because of my investigations and private communications) that they are different drivers made on different specs, but please check other sources as well. Moreover, you can buy a lot of variations of these drivers (magnetic circuit, impedance, diaphragm, etc) on Ali and will cost and measure and sound quite different. Granted, all of these do share some common elements.
If you believe they are the same drivers, then go ahead, buy the D5200 and mod them as you wish.
Changing the cables helps indeed, but of course you can't change the wire from the voice coil .



Not for the D7200 - its own modded pad is the best. Or look for shallow leather pads with bigger inner opening, e.g. these (even tough a bit thick, but cheap). Or some Vesper Audio pads, like this or this or this. But as I said, the headroom is small. There are some drivers on Ali that are cheap and a big change if you are bothered by the 3K ringing - but this is a big change and not easily done, and likely not reversible (I didn't do it, but @Maxx134 did).

I'm assuming the details of these "secret investigations and private communications" proving the drivers are different are not available for anyone else to see.

Anyway all I'm saying is the specs are almost identical for all 3, it takes allot of r&d to develop a driver from scratch, most likely they are using the same driver. I have no proof to verify this but neither do you. Its all speculation because no one is going to destroy the drivers to verify this. At least i can point to the specs and the drastic changes to the sound from the mods and not just going by Denon marketing hopes and dreams. If you know something we don't, please feel free to share.

I have bought and tested many drivers from AliExpress and find that most of them are hot garbage, amongst the drivers I've tested up to the $80 price point anyway.

No you're not going to get a close to d7200 driver off Ali for $40.

 

[HawaiiR]

Check post #2663 & 2679.

I added some fo.q ta32 and phone art tape and it reigned in the messiness in the lower mids and bass. Its smoother in the upper mids and treble as well and almost all the grain is gone.

I've noticed theres alot of resonance coming off the plastic on the frame as well as the plastic ring around the driver.

Thank you. That messiness is exactly what annoys me about the 7200's. I'll check out both of those posts!

 

[HawaiiR]

No, they have different drivers. They sound and measure differently in a number of ways.



I did extensive tuning on the D7200, out of necessity. Some D7200 samples, including mine, have had a ringing/honky midrange problem, which required cups damping adjustments - well, until the cups aged to 2+ years. I assume this was due to variations in wood sourcing/quality. The good news is that aging improves the wooden cups (no big news here, it's wood).

Then, the wooden cups make a pretty big tonal difference: walnut cups make the same drivers sound darker and thicker, the bamboo makes the sound more open. My experience with a lot of wooden cups (Fostex, Massdrop, Denon models) might go against popular (including Lawton) wisdom: I consistently preferred lighter woods, especially those typically used for guitar tops. Urushi (TH900) is very good (certainly still the best for the TH900), bamboo as well.

The D7200 drivers in the D9200 enclosure sound more open and without the brightness of the D9200 drivers - which still have more resolution from the bass to the treble. Choose your preferred compromise .

As for tuning, an UPOCC pure silver (not silver plated copper) cable is a good match for the D7200, while an UPOCC copper cabble is a good match for the D9200.
The stock cables are passable, but not the best. IME polymer impregnated cotton is far better for insulating than teflon (when sound is the priority), unfortunately less and less manufacturers use that. The exception may be the gold plated silver cables (e.g. Toxic) which sound good even with teflon coating, likely since gold already solves the crystal boundary problem. Also, most cables use too thin strands (typically 0.08 mm) whereas IMHO the optimal strand diameter for Litz cables is 3-4 times that, around 0.3 mm for headphone cables.

The D7200 has a rather narrow finetuning headroom (needed mostly in the midrange), but the D9200 brightness tendency is harder to handle.
Therefore the D9200 is the more sensitive one to ancillary equipment, most of which tend to sound hard, not being a good match.

If I was Denon, I would experiment using the D9200 drivers with cedar cups and copper cables, and the D7200 drivers with bamboo cups and pure silver cables.
The D9200 would maintain the lead, the D7200 closely following with slight different "best" tuning.

In both cases, the most time I have spent on the ear pads tuning. The stock ear pads are too thick and too stuffed, with too much foam mass, i.e. over-damped.
Reducing the foam mass in the ear pads really unlocks the potential of these headphones.

Earlier in this thread I shared ear pad mods, IIRC with measurements. For the D7200, the best pads were their own (or D5200/D9200) pads in which the internal foam was trimmed 20-40% from the back and perhaps 10% from the front, to become thinner and with slightly bigger internal opening. That is, ear pads should be a bit more shallow and with a bit more internal opening. One can leave the (p)leather shell unmodified, the internal foam is enough. However, these mods require cutting and sewing.

The D9200s sound good with a wider range of ear pads, the best being the (modded) Stax 007 and 009 pads, or their own finetuned ear pads.

Note that I am not making mods for anyone. But anyone is free to try these ideas.

Wow, this is all quite insightful. I'll take a look at eared replacement. I can't sew to save my life, so that option is out for me. The pure silver wire could also be an option, albeit a pricey one. Any recommendations on brands?

 

[HawaiiR]

3) You need tuning? Try the EQ first. In my case I achieved a great amount of improvements in terms of sound and I am very happy with the results. Plus clicking one button I can get back to stock sound and back.

4) Source quality and amps also do matter a lot but in terms of cables I have hard time to recognize any sound differences.

5) If you are still not happy how they sound etc.... sell them !!!

I'm slowly leaning towards 5, but willing to try a few of the suggested mods first. I haven't bothered with them for around 5 or 6 months, so maybe I'll have a different opinion after trying my EQ on them first.

 

[krenky]

I use these on the d7200s and my sony z7m2.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251...tewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

How did those change the sound for you? Im after the D9200 now once I get them I might experiment with the D7200 pads a bit.

I only have the problem with D7200 when I am reading your posts D D D
I really like how they sound, not really looking to change that.
Cheers

 

[krenky]

I'm slowly leaning towards 5, but willing to try a few of the suggested mods first. I haven't bothered with them for around 5 or 6 months, so maybe I'll have a different opinion after trying my EQ on them first.

Posted my EQ few pages back... but if you tune it yourself post your EQ settings... I will try them.
Listening to some Aphex Twin live these days ... those sounds are insane on the D7200

 

[HawaiiR]

Posted my EQ few pages back... but if you tune it yourself post your EQ settings... I will try them.
Listening to some Aphex Twin live these days ... those sounds are insane on the D7200

Aphex Twin? Now you've got my attention! I'll def check out your settings. Thank you!

 

[dougms3]

Thank you. That messiness is exactly what annoys me about the 7200's. I'll check out both of those posts!

That messiness can be almost entirely removed without affecting the tuning too much. There is a balance though, if you use too much it will sound cleaner but you will lose soundstage, bass and dynamics.

If you take the driver and plastic housing out of the earcup and frame, then plug it in and listen to it, you can hear that it doesn't have that messiness or grain. Thats why I'm sure its the sound resonating off the thin plastic on the frame and housing.

Its fairly cheap for that fo.q ta32 tape, about $40 for a package which is enough to mod a dozen d7200s.

I opened up the headphone again to remove some tape and add it again to find the balance that was acceptable to me.

 

[dougms3]

How did those change the sound for you? Im after the D9200 now once I get them I might experiment with the D7200 pads a bit.

I only have the problem with D7200 when I am reading your posts D D D
I really like how they sound, not really looking to change that.
Cheers

The pads increased the bass alot and made the mids a little less forward. In stock form, I found the upper mids and some treble to be a bit peaky. The thicker earpads and the perforation on the inside seem to help smooth that out.

Perhaps I'm sensitive to that grain, its present in the sennheiser 58x in the upper mids which drove me nuts too.

I like the stock signature of the d7200s but I just don't like the messiness in the lower half of the FR, especially when it can be remedied so easily. If it comes to changing the signature to remove that grain, I will do it. But it hasn't really come to that yet.

 

[HawaiiR]

That messiness can be almost entirely removed without affecting the tuning too much. There is a balance though, if you use too much it will sound cleaner but you will lose soundstage, bass and dynamics.

If you take the driver and plastic housing out of the earcup and frame, then plug it in and listen to it, you can hear that it doesn't have that messiness or grain. Thats why I'm sure its the sound resonating off the thin plastic on the frame and housing.

Its fairly cheap for that fo.q ta32 tape, about $40 for a package which is enough to mod a dozen d7200s.

I opened up the headphone again to remove some tape and add it again to find the balance that was acceptable to me.

Yeah the pricing on the tape seems fair. Wondering if they sell smaller quantities, since I doubt I'll need that much. Or do you know of any other alternative options? If not, I suppose I could eventually find some other uses for the excess.

Also, where did you get your speaker wire from? Any specific store? I might try the wire swap at some point. I have another big mod/update to do on a synth, after which I'll probably give this a go.

 

[dougms3]

Yeah the pricing on the tape seems fair. Wondering if they sell smaller quantities, since I doubt I'll need that much. Or do you know of any other alternative options? If not, I suppose I could eventually find some other uses for the excess.

Also, where did you get your speaker wire from? Any specific store? I might try the wire swap at some point. I have another big mod/update to do on a synth, after which I'll probably give this a go.

Soniccraft.com

They sell the wire and solder in small quantities.

The tape has so many uses, not just for modding headphones. Its worth keeping around in the toolbox.

 

[krenky]

Listening to the D7200 (with EQ) always puts me into a good mood. I also like their decent isolation and despite my children being a bit noisy around it keeps me in the zone.
Anyway, I have been thinking lately what I am going to use when traveling and outside. I have tried few Denon earbugs before but I was not happy with their sound

I have been using also some smaller headphones like HP600, HD25 and similar. These were a solid option but they also demanded more power, look a bit bulky and mainly sometimes when going fast or its too hot they were causing my skin and ears getting very hot. My latest option were earbuds SoundMagic E11. Very decent sound, amazing isolation, pretty good fit, very easy to power, just great. Got bored with them after about 1 year of user so I was thinking let me try the IEM for change. I did not want to spend more money and also dont want to go wireless so I just got KZ ZS10 Pro for about £45. Now after like 10 hours of use I must admit they sound really good. Very balanced with spacious sound and powerful bass. I thought Im going to hate them but surprised me a lot. A robust improvement over the E11. They are definitely a great company to the D7200. Now, it doesnt feel like I am going to loose much on the sound quality when on the move.

What are you guys using when you are outside or travelling?

 

[Hyde00]

Listening to the D7200 (with EQ) always puts me into a good mood. I also like their decent isolation and despite my children being a bit noisy around it keeps me in the zone.
Anyway, I have been thinking lately what I am going to use when traveling and outside. I have tried few Denon earbugs before but I was not happy with their sound

I have been using also some smaller headphones like HP600, HD25 and similar. These were a solid option but they also demanded more power, look a bit bulky and mainly sometimes when going fast or its too hot they were causing my skin and ears getting very hot. My latest option were earbuds SoundMagic E11. Very decent sound, amazing isolation, pretty good fit, very easy to power, just great. Got bored with them after about 1 year of user so I was thinking let me try the IEM for change. I did not want to spend more money and also dont want to go wireless so I just got KZ ZS10 Pro for about £45. Now after like 10 hours of use I must admit they sound really good. Very balanced with spacious sound and powerful bass. I thought Im going to hate them but surprised me a lot. A robust improvement over the E11. They are definitely a great company to the D7200. Now, it doesnt feel like I am going to loose much on the sound quality when on the move.

What are you guys using when you are outside or travelling?

Wait can't you just use D7200 for travelling? I think the new generation Denon D5200/D7200/D9200 are meant to be "portable" headphone no? (Hence smaller than the Fostex headphones)

Maybe get a Meze 4.4 mm balanced cable and hook up to a DAP / dongle and you're good to go LOL.

 

[krenky]

Wait can't you just use D7200 for travelling? I think the new generation Denon D5200/D7200/D9200 are meant to be "portable" headphone no? (Hence smaller than the Fostex headphones)

Maybe get a Meze 4.4 mm balanced cable and hook up to a DAP / dongle and you're good to go LOL.

Man, that would be a sin !!! Im worried about them getting dust at home and you would take them out... terrible lol

Maybe the D5200 being the cheaper version
The MM400 would be nice option but the wooden cups say nooo

 

[dougms3]

Listening to the D7200 (with EQ) always puts me into a good mood. I also like their decent isolation and despite my children being a bit noisy around it keeps me in the zone.
Anyway, I have been thinking lately what I am going to use when traveling and outside. I have tried few Denon earbugs before but I was not happy with their sound

I have been using also some smaller headphones like HP600, HD25 and similar. These were a solid option but they also demanded more power, look a bit bulky and mainly sometimes when going fast or its too hot they were causing my skin and ears getting very hot. My latest option were earbuds SoundMagic E11. Very decent sound, amazing isolation, pretty good fit, very easy to power, just great. Got bored with them after about 1 year of user so I was thinking let me try the IEM for change. I did not want to spend more money and also dont want to go wireless so I just got KZ ZS10 Pro for about £45. Now after like 10 hours of use I must admit they sound really good. Very balanced with spacious sound and powerful bass. I thought Im going to hate them but surprised me a lot. A robust improvement over the E11. They are definitely a great company to the D7200. Now, it doesnt feel like I am going to loose much on the sound quality when on the move.

What are you guys using when you are outside or travelling?

I use the TRN ST5 and Kirin iems for portable use. I've come to terms with the fact that there are no iems that can reproduce bass like a headphone and no headphone can reproduce the bass of a sub so just work with the best sound you can out of each situation.

Although I would say the d7200s are not that big and could be used for portable use. Its the least bulky of all the headphones in my collection.