[pompon]

Hello all,

I own already HD650 recabled with equinox. I own a decent amp (singlepower mpx3 slam upgraded).

I wonder if will be a better idea to buy a balanced amp like Supra Extreme XLR or something like that and buy a balanced equinox and keep my HD650 or simply buy Denon and do the Markl's mod and keep my existing amp ?

Balanced option is something like 6000$.


Option 2 ... with the same balanced amp using Denon converted in balanced ... is-it just a bit different or Denon still far better to HD650 ?

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pompon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello all, I own already HD650 recabled with equinox. I own a decent amp (singlepower mpx3 slam upgraded). I wonder if will be a better idea to buy a balanced amp like Supra Extreme XLR or something like that and buy a balanced equinox and keep my HD650 or simply buy Denon and do the Markl's mod and keep my existing amp ? Balanced option is something like 6000$. Option 2 ... with the same balanced amp using Denon converted in balanced ... is-it just a bit different or Denon still far better to HD650 ?

How much better can they become - How much better will the HD650s be when you've invested thousand$ more in your set up? Can they possibly be that much better, than other phones? They certainly aren't worth that magnitude of investment, unless they do. I'd be highly skeptical, no matter how good they say they "might become."

Seems to me... that's your answer... no matter what alternative phones you might choose - unless you're totally exempt from losses on your investments, and "buyer's remorse." Not me!

 

[crappyjones123]

jebus this guy(gradofan) is everywhere... ><

i would vote for the 650s just because i love them. BUT over in the amp section dreadhead remarked while doing a comparison between the gsx and the b22 (both balanced) that he preferred his markl modded denon over the 650. the exact differences are available there. so if you prefer the same sound as him, go with the denons. nothing wrong with having two really nice toys to play with

if not, long live the 650s!

 

[dreamwhisper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by crappyjones123 /img/forum/go_quote.gif jebus this guy(gradofan) is everywhere... >< i would vote for the 650s just because i love them. BUT over in the amp section dreadhead remarked while doing a comparison between the gsx and the b22 (both balanced) that he preferred his markl modded denon over the 650. the exact differences are available there. so if you prefer the same sound as him, go with the denons. nothing wrong with having two really nice toys to play with if not, long live the 650s!

It should be noted that Dreadhead wasn't using upgraded cables on his HD650's.. just the XLR Headroom cable.

I've seen the Head-Fi'er Unkle Erik as well someone else describe the Lavry DA10 --> GS-X/Beta 22 --> XLR Zu cable --> HD650 as 'heaven'
Head-fi'er Pabbi also acclaims the Beta 22 as being pretty much as good as it gets, though he/she prefers the APS v3 XLR cable.
I've also heard that Equinox cable with Senn foam mod is better than the Zu cable with foam mod.

a balanced set-up can be had for less than 6 grand
lavry - $1000
a beta 22 can be built for $1350-1500
upgraded XLR cable $300-400
HD650 - $350

$3250 tops, and the source and amp don't have to be exclusively for the HD650.
EDIT: I see you have HD650s and the Equinox cable. All you would need to do is reterminate it to XLR/
Then your total cost is $2500 assuming you perfrom the XLR retermination yourself.


I'm actually in the process of taking the HD650s balanced, and just recently heard about the Denons.
If I were you I would go Denons, then if youre not satisfied go the balanced HD650 route.

As for me, I already have the HD650 w/ Zu XLR, the Lavry DA10, and have found a builder for a Beta 22, so I'm in too deep to change my mind
...And I'm still prbly going to buy the D5000s in the next few months

 

[Andrew_WOT]

HD650 even SE is a much better headphone than D5000. But if their signature is totally not your cup of tea, I would look elsewhere, as Denon sounds just like inferior HD650, tonality is quite similar.

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif HD650 even SE is a much better headphone than D5000. But if their signature is totally not your cup of tea, I would look elsewhere, as Denon sounds just like inferior HD650, tonality is quite similar.

Wow... that's quite an "indictment" of the D5000s... which... may be just a bit "extreme."

They do sound a lot like the HD650s... but... once burnt in... and with a good amp... they sound much more clear and detailed than the HD650s (at least the "old" version of the HD650s). Though their bass is less controlled and not as tight and clear than the HD650s - which don't have very tight bass themselves. Again... these observations are made, based on the "old" version of the HD650s - which may be much darker and slower than the "new" version - I don't know.

The D5000s do sound pretty good... actually... once their well burnt in - though they do need the "Markl Mods" to tighten their bass up.

I'm not sure either is a great choice... unless... you're committed to investing a lot... and "fiddling around" with them to get them to perform up to their potential.

But... because the HD650s are so dark and slow, and need so much... if I were going to "fiddle around"... I think I'd almost prefer to "fiddle with" with the D5000s to get to their optimum sound.

 

[Dreadhead]

I own both a "new" HD650 and Denon D5000s and as people stated I am driving them with both a balanced beta22 and GS-X. These amps are probably the two most transparent and colorless amps out there. (I'll not get into my beta22 saga)

As far as detail goes the modified and burned in D5000 is a hands down winner over the 650 though the bass may still be a bit much. I categorically disagree with anyone who says that the 650 has more detail, it's just not true. There are so many recordings (for example Norah Jones, "Come Away With Me") that the distortion barely even registers with the 650s but is there and audible with the D5000s (though not so there that you can't enjoy the music).

I honestly HATED the D5000 at first but they calmed down after the mod and lots of burn in and I think they have become a very balanced and controlled set of phones with about comparable peakiness after listening to frequency sweeps with both phones but with better bass extension and slam. They are my favorite phones right now.

Just in case you think I am a fan boy I actually constantly (once or twice a week) switch between the phones just to make sure I'm not just getting used to one or the other.

For me audio is about fidelity: I want the original recording delivered to my ears with no modifications at all (for better or for worse) and hence neither of these is quite what I want and I'm going be getting Sony SA5000s later this week (already shipped) to see if they are more to my liking.

 

[Dreadhead]

Oh and the reason I have not switched cables is that I don't want to switch cables because as long as the cable has enough gauge the electrons don't give a damn what they are passing through (especially between silver and copper that have a difference in conductivity of less than 10%). That's my story and I have the calculations and an engineering physics degree to back it up.

I'm going to take all my gear to a regional head-fi meet in the middle of next month and hey if someone wants to switch off and let me try their cables with my HD650s I'm all for it and if I hear a difference I'll eat crow and post that I'm wrong. I've done so in the past.

At the same time if people do hear the difference with cables and enjoy it then more power to them just don't tell me I'm hearing things because I don't want to spend $300 on $15 worth of cable.

Regards,
Chris Kent

 

[vvs_75]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreadhead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh and the reason I have not switched cables is that I don't want to switch cables because as long as the cable has enough gauge the electrons don't give a damn what they are passing through (especially between silver and copper that have a difference in conductivity of less than 10%). That's my story and I have the calculations and an engineering physics degree to back it up. I'm going to take all my gear to a regional head-fi meet in the middle of next month and hey if someone wants to switch off and let me try their cables with my HD650s I'm all for it and if I hear a difference I'll eat crow and post that I'm wrong. I've done so in the past. At the same time if people do hear the difference with cables and enjoy it then more power to them just don't tell me I'm hearing things because I don't want to spend $300 on $15 worth of cable. Regards, Chris Kent

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreadhead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh and the reason I have not switched cables is that I don't want to switch cables because as long as the cable has enough gauge the electrons don't give a damn what they are passing through (especially between silver and copper that have a difference in conductivity of less than 10%). That's my story and I have the calculations and an engineering physics degree to back it up. I'm going to take all my gear to a regional head-fi meet in the middle of next month and hey if someone wants to switch off and let me try their cables with my HD650s I'm all for it and if I hear a difference I'll eat crow and post that I'm wrong. I've done so in the past. At the same time if people do hear the difference with cables and enjoy it then more power to them just don't tell me I'm hearing things because I don't want to spend $300 on $15 worth of cable. Regards, Chris Kent

Well... then... you're "going to be eating some crow" for sure - especially, if you've got a RAL Cryo-Silver cable to try with the HD650s... or almost any silver cable for that matter.

You will learn at some point... that SQ is not determined by the "formulas," - there are just too many variables with indeterminate effects - to rely on the "formulas."

That's like saying the frequency curves tell you what a particular set of headphones sound like - they, plainly and simply don't.

Have fun... and better take your favorite seasonings with you.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

The whole old/new HD650 is a total made up. My Zu recabled single ended HD650 (old if you want to call it this way) trounced well burned in D2000 in details and everywhere else out of GS-1. And it wasn't some casual meet listening, I owned two pairs of Denon for prolonged period of time. They are okay closed phones, but I just couldn't justify to keep them as HD650 does everything better, especially details.

 

[Dreadhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have fun... and better take your favorite seasonings with you.

LOL Oh I will....

What I love is the fact that arguing with "cable hearers" is like arguing with people about faith. It's not a matter of ever listening to your points against something or presenting evidence it's just "I'm right, I hear it"

That said don't argue with me about my faith or you may get the same answer.

I don't doubt people hear it just like more expensive wine tastes better, it doesn't make it true in greater sense of the word. The way humans sense the world is a wonderful and very interesting thing, and in then end this hobby is about enjoyment to the person. What cuts back on my enjoyment (especially around head-fi) is people telling me I'm wrong because I don't want to grab $300 cables (I can assure you it's not a matter of budget).

If you enjoy the cables then so be it! What I don't understand is that every time I post a critique of my in most respects very high end setup people start blaming cable for the fact I don't support their position whatever that may be.

I may have gotten a bit harsh with respect to that but I still stick by my dirty little numbers and formulas. Without them you wouldn't have a beta22 or any amp for that matter (including gasp... tubes).

The above critique is not directed at anyone in particular I'm just saying things as I see them. With my own prejudices and mental inconsistencies

If it offends anyone deeply I'm sorry.

Thanks,
Chris Kent

 

[Dreadhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif The whole old/new HD650 is a total made up. My Zu recabled single ended HD650 (old if you want to call it this way) trounced well burned in D2000 in details and everywhere else out of GS-1. And it wasn't some casual meet listening, I owned two pairs of Denon for prolonged period of time. They are okay closed phones, but I just couldn't justify to keep them as HD650 does everything better, especially details.

Are you talking 5000 or 2000? I have no experience with the 2000 but the 5000 is flat out better than the 650 on the detail and I'm not the only person to come to that conclusion with my system.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dreadhead /img/forum/go_quote.gif Are you talking 5000 or 2000? I have no experience with the 2000 but the 5000 is flat out better than the 650 on the detail and I'm not the only person to come to that conclusion with my system.

Well, they are pretty much the same, spare the better cable which you don't believe in anyway.

 

[Dreadhead]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, they are pretty much the same, spare the better cable which you don't believe in anyway.

I don't think it's the cable and I never have

It is a very nice cable though and I do like how stiff it is. My understanding is that the d2000 used a plastic housing and it's possible that the geometry of the interior of the casing is different and this will effect the sound (though I'm not sure how much, my guess is very little). Hopefully I'll get to try a pair of D2000 and see if I wasted my money (well my wife thinks the whole hobby is a waste). To be honest I only bought the 5000 because the markl mod was written specifically for it and I liked the look of the wood. At the same time I am in no way tied to them.

I do find it interesting that you have such a different experience than me and my acquaintances with my Denons (2 different pair of markl mods), assuming that as you say the d2000 and d5000 sound the same. As I have stated I really hated the stock d5000 because you couldn't hear anything (especially details) over the bass so maybe the mod is the issue? In the end I don't think this will be settled anytime soon but hey who says it needs to be

You love your phones and I like mine (I can't wait for my new SA5000s).

Anyway I'll throw my vote for the d5000s but that is on the condition that they are modded. Otherwise the HD650 is a better headphone in my opinion.