Denafrips 'Pontus' R2R ladder DAC - close up view
Dec 5, 2021 at 2:38 PM Post #631 of 1,800
Hello friends,

Existing setup = Soncoz LA-QXD1 -> Feliks Audio Esspressivo (TubeAmp) -> HD800s. I am sure I need to upgrade my dac.

I tried these setups -
  • Qutest -> GSX Mini -> HD800S. - Loved it. Qutest is a solid dac. There was a lot more air and better staging with it than my existing Soncoz dac. However, it did not sound full bodied.
  • Astell&Kern SP2k -> GSX Mini -> HD800S. It became bit intimate - less air and less breathing space, but a lot more weight.
I know Qutest has some limitations, but it’s good. Any suggestions for dac which has best of the above two setups? How about the Pontus 2? Will it fit my needs? Please suggest.

Thanks
Pontus would produce even fuller body than SP2K, and will deliver wider soundstage than Qutest. However, resolution, separation and micro detail not up to Qutest level though.

Personally, I think Pontus would have better synergy with HD800S.
 
Dec 5, 2021 at 3:16 PM Post #632 of 1,800
Pontus would produce even fuller body than SP2K, and will deliver wider soundstage than Qutest. However, resolution, separation and micro detail not up to Qutest level though.

Personally, I think Pontus would have better synergy with HD800S.
At that $2k price point you are going to get a really really good DAC. But with trade offs. R2R, FPGA or Delta Sigma philosophy should be your first choice. They all sound a little different, but will all have really good qualities at that price point. Here my recommends at that price point.

1. Delta Sigma - Pure Audio Lotus 5
2. FPGA - Qutest
3. R2R - Pontus II. Maybe an Audio GD R2R 8. But, I’d get a Pontus. It isn’t as resolving as the Qutest, but for my tastes is more balanced and musical. I simply love the R2R sound. It is detailed, but not so detailed you lose weight, and musicality. Strikes a nice balance.

If you want it all with R2R you need to go up in price to something like a Rockna Wavelight, Merason DAC1 or Terminator II. The Holo May KTE is another great DAC, but pricey and I’d get a Terminator first.

At that $4k price point you can also get TEACs new UD-701n, which will have impeccable PRAT, plus a streamer and decent headphone amp. TEAC makes great DACs, in my opinion. There newest is their best yet but more than double the price of a Pontus.

I have gone the Pontus route and couldn’t be happier. Phenomenal product. Worth every penny…
 
Dec 5, 2021 at 3:31 PM Post #633 of 1,800
Anyone able to get Roon to recognize higher than 768khz with pontus II USB (both wasapi and asio)?
 
Dec 5, 2021 at 3:32 PM Post #634 of 1,800
Anyone able to get Roon to recognize higher than 768khz with pontus II USB (both wasapi and asio)?
No. But, haven’t tried to upsample passed max PCM.
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 3:44 AM Post #635 of 1,800
Has anyone been able to do an A/B with the usual Topping D90 or Bifrost2 dac for a detailed comparison?

Am still on the fence as to whether the Pontus II would give me what I am looking for. And kinda put off by the fact that only either SE or XLR can be used at a time.

Appreciate any advise!
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 1:53 PM Post #636 of 1,800
At that $2k price point you are going to get a really really good DAC. But with trade offs. R2R, FPGA or Delta Sigma philosophy should be your first choice. They all sound a little different, but will all have really good qualities at that price point. Here my recommends at that price point.

1. Delta Sigma - Pure Audio Lotus 5
2. FPGA - Qutest
3. R2R - Pontus II. Maybe an Audio GD R2R 8. But, I’d get a Pontus. It isn’t as resolving as the Qutest, but for my tastes is more balanced and musical. I simply love the R2R sound. It is detailed, but not so detailed you lose weight, and musicality. Strikes a nice balance.

If you want it all with R2R you need to go up in price to something like a Rockna Wavelight, Merason DAC1 or Terminator II. The Holo May KTE is another great DAC, but pricey and I’d get a Terminator first.

At that $4k price point you can also get TEACs new UD-701n, which will have impeccable PRAT, plus a streamer and decent headphone amp. TEAC makes great DACs, in my opinion. There newest is their best yet but more than double the price of a Pontus.

I have gone the Pontus route and couldn’t be happier. Phenomenal product. Worth every penny…
I had a slightly different take on the Qutest vs the Pontus. To me, the Qutest initially sounds more resolving because it presents the main elements of music in more etched detail, but the Qutest seems to do less well than the Pontus at presenting all elements of music. Less prominent details in music seem easier to follow with the Pontus than with the Qutest.

On its own, the Qutest sounds very good. But listening to the Pontus reveals what the Qutest misses in its presentation of music. Some thoughts on strengths of the Pontus:

Presence: Instruments and voices are conveyed by the Pontus with what sounds like an appropriate level of weight for each instrument. . In contrast, the Qutest communicates the details but seems to be less able to convey the weight and fullness of each voice and instrument's sound. The 'air' around voices are also conveyed by the Pontus in a very palpable way but with a sense of refinement and restraint that sounds realistic when compared to a real-life performance.

Pace & Emotional Range: What appeals to me most about the Pontus and perhaps what I noticed first was wide range of pace that the Pontus is able to convey. Some DACs like the Qutest have good pace. Other DACs such as the Ares II sound more relaxed. It's intriguing to hear a DAC that can sound both relaxed as well as upbeat and dynamic as needed. For the Pontus, that ability allows it to sound relaxed and calm or energetic and dynamic depending on the music being played. Music through the Pontus seems to be conveyed as the artist or composer intended instead of the Pontus imposing its own sonic signature onto the music.

Flow & Continuity: Consistent with my comments on the Pontus' adaptability in terms of pace and emotional range, it is conveys the flow of music really well. Its presentation makes it easy to "follow the tune" when listening to music. For lack of a better way to describe this quality of the Pontus, I would say that it has a lot of patience in how it conveys music. It's not in a rush to get the next note out as the Qutest sometimes seems to be, but can play quicker or slower depending on emotional nature of the music.

What listening preferences would the Pontus fit well: The Pontus would be a great choice for anyone that appreciates the sound and feel of live music. More than any other DAC I heard, the Pontus seems to savor the texture and feel of every note of music. The Pontus does particularly well with reproducing the textures, tonal quality and emotions of voices and acoustic music.


What listening preferences would the Pontus not fit as well: Listeners that want a sharp cut-glass feel to their music might not appreciate the Pontus as much. The Pontus digs out a lot of detail, but it presents detail in a way that sounds natural. If you listen to a lot of electronic music and are looking for razor-sharp sounding transients, the Pontus might not fit your preferences as much as the Qutest.
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 2:52 PM Post #637 of 1,800
I had a slightly different take on the Qutest vs the Pontus. To me, the Qutest initially sounds more resolving because it presents the main elements of music in more etched detail, but the Qutest seems to do less well than the Pontus at presenting all elements of music. Less prominent details in music seem easier to follow with the Pontus than with the Qutest.

On its own, the Qutest sounds very good. But listening to the Pontus reveals what the Qutest misses in its presentation of music. Some thoughts on strengths of the Pontus:

Presence: Instruments and voices are conveyed by the Pontus with what sounds like an appropriate level of weight for each instrument. . In contrast, the Qutest communicates the details but seems to be less able to convey the weight and fullness of each voice and instrument's sound. The 'air' around voices are also conveyed by the Pontus in a very palpable way but with a sense of refinement and restraint that sounds realistic when compared to a real-life performance.

Pace & Emotional Range: What appeals to me most about the Pontus and perhaps what I noticed first was wide range of pace that the Pontus is able to convey. Some DACs like the Qutest have good pace. Other DACs such as the Ares II sound more relaxed. It's intriguing to hear a DAC that can sound both relaxed as well as upbeat and dynamic as needed. For the Pontus, that ability allows it to sound relaxed and calm or energetic and dynamic depending on the music being played. Music through the Pontus seems to be conveyed as the artist or composer intended instead of the Pontus imposing its own sonic signature onto the music.

Flow & Continuity: Consistent with my comments on the Pontus' adaptability in terms of pace and emotional range, it is conveys the flow of music really well. Its presentation makes it easy to "follow the tune" when listening to music. For lack of a better way to describe this quality of the Pontus, I would say that it has a lot of patience in how it conveys music. It's not in a rush to get the next note out as the Qutest sometimes seems to be, but can play quicker or slower depending on emotional nature of the music.

What listening preferences would the Pontus fit well: The Pontus would be a great choice for anyone that appreciates the sound and feel of live music. More than any other DAC I heard, the Pontus seems to savor the texture and feel of every note of music. The Pontus does particularly well with reproducing the textures, tonal quality and emotions of voices and acoustic music.


What listening preferences would the Pontus not fit as well: Listeners that want a sharp cut-glass feel to their music might not appreciate the Pontus as much. The Pontus digs out a lot of detail, but it presents detail in a way that sounds natural. If you listen to a lot of electronic music and are looking for razor-sharp sounding transients, the Pontus might not fit your preferences as much as the Qutest.
I couldn’t agree more. I own the Pontus and agree 100% with your assessment. It just makes beautiful music. The Qutest is a very capable DAC, but also very different. I’d take the Pontus over the TT2, which I didn’t like at all. I was trying to be nice as their are staunch advocates of the Chord sound. Maybe the DAVE and M Scaler fixes all that but at $17,000. Your thoughts are extremely accurate about the Pontus.

Mostly, I was just giving options as music and chain will always be YMMV…
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 3:11 PM Post #638 of 1,800
I couldn’t agree more. I own the Pontus and agree 100% with your assessment. It just makes beautiful music. The Qutest is a very capable DAC, but also very different. I’d take the Pontus over the TT2, which I didn’t like at all. I was trying to be nice as their are staunch advocates of the Chord sound. Maybe the DAVE and M Scaler fixes all that but at $17,000. Your thoughts are extremely accurate about the Pontus.

Mostly, I was just giving options as music and chain will always be YMMV…
It's funny that you say you didn't like the Hugo TT2 at all. I had a similar reaction but with the MScaler added to the TT2 as well.

Listening to the Hugo TT2 / Mscaler was also memorable to me as an example of how confirmation bias doesn't always affect my hearing as some "objectivists" might claim. Absolutely everything I had read about the TT2, especially with the MScaler added on pointed to how it should sound fabulous. I was joining a friend to listen to amplifiers and the Hugo TT2/ MScaler was used as a source connected to a Naim NDX 2 used as the streamer for local files. The TT2 / MScaler sounded "good" from the perspective of audiophile metrics, but the music coming from the Chord combo sounded absolutely lifeless and without any pace. I coincidently had brought my Pontus 2 along to serve as a source that at least one of us had heard before. So we took out the TT2/MScaler & put the Pontus in its place. What a WOW moment. Having the Pontus in the same system was a night-and-day improvement versus the TT2/MScaler. The same music now had life, rhythm, and pace and sounded engaging.

For any "objectivists" that claim sound quality can only be measured by instruments and that any subjective listening differences heard must be due to psychoacoustics bias, confirmation bias that day would have 100% dictated that the TT2/MScaler should have sounded fabulous to me. Instead, the Pontus 2 at about 1/6 of the price of the TT2/MScaler combo was the DAC I would have chosen between the two regardless of price.

Interestingly, based on that brief listen to the TT2 / MScaler, I would probably say that I might even prefer the sound of the Qutest over the TT2/MScaler because the Qutest at least has a level of pace that the TT2 / MScaler did not on that day.
 
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Dec 6, 2021 at 4:25 PM Post #639 of 1,800
I took all my brave-pills today and did manage to install the new firmware updates on my Denafrips Pontus II and Iris. Thanx Alvin for making this possible now via Mac OS and the very helpful tutorials. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 4:45 PM Post #640 of 1,800
I took all my brave-pills today and did manage to install the new firmware updates on my Denafrips Pontus II and Iris. Thanx Alvin for making this possible now via Mac OS and the very helpful tutorials. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
There are new Mac OS firmware updates? Finally?!?
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 6:19 PM Post #641 of 1,800
It's funny that you say you didn't like the Hugo TT2 at all. I had a similar reaction but with the MScaler added to the TT2 as well.

Listening to the Hugo TT2 / Mscaler was also memorable to me as an example of how confirmation bias doesn't always affect my hearing as some "objectivists" might claim. Absolutely everything I had read about the TT2, especially with the MScaler added on pointed to how it should sound fabulous. I was joining a friend to listen to amplifiers and the Hugo TT2/ MScaler was used as a source connected to a Naim NDX 2 used as the streamer for local files. The TT2 / MScaler sounded "good" from the perspective of audiophile metrics, but the music coming from the Chord combo sounded absolutely lifeless and without any pace. I coincidently had brought my Pontus 2 along to serve as a source that at least one of us had heard before. So we took out the TT2/MScaler & put the Pontus in its place. What a WOW moment. Having the Pontus in the same system was a night-and-day improvement versus the TT2/MScaler. The same music now had life, rhythm, and pace and sounded engaging.

For any "objectivists" that claim sound quality can only be measured by instruments and that any subjective listening differences heard must be due to psychoacoustics bias, confirmation bias that day would have 100% dictated that the TT2/MScaler should have sounded fabulous to me. Instead, the Pontus 2 at about 1/6 of the price of the TT2/MScaler combo was the DAC I would have chosen between the two regardless of price.

Interestingly, based on that brief listen to the TT2 / MScaler, I would probably say that I might even prefer the sound of the Qutest over the TT2/MScaler because the Qutest at least has a level of pace that the TT2 / MScaler did not on that day.
I am 100% in agreement with you. I just recently picked a fight on ASR because it is this weird world of measurements and figurines and seems to forget that music is a visceral experience and that great sound comes in all forms. Subjective listening differences are the whole point! And I agree that PRAT is the single most important quality. It is what I look for with all my gear. The space between the notes, instrument placement, soundstage which allows your music to breath, and Pace/Timing. All what I consider to be the lifeblood of my music. Not to mention Tonality/timbre. The Pontus II just seems to get all of this and allows me to connect to my music in ways I couldn't before owning it. My favorite headphone of all time is the Hifiman Code X. It isn't the most detailed headphone, but it nails Tonality/Timbre and enables me to get as close as possible to the rhythm and pace of my music.

Bravo! I love your perspective!!! Breath of fresh air...
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 6:20 PM Post #642 of 1,800
I took all my brave-pills today and did manage to install the new firmware updates on my Denafrips Pontus II and Iris. Thanx Alvin for making this possible now via Mac OS and the very helpful tutorials. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
How do I do this? I have an iMac running Roon Labs...
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 7:00 PM Post #643 of 1,800
Has anyone been able to do an A/B with the usual Topping D90 or Bifrost2 dac for a detailed comparison?

Am still on the fence as to whether the Pontus II would give me what I am looking for. And kinda put off by the fact that only either SE or XLR can be used at a time.

Appreciate any advise!
Pontus II. I only listen to one amp at a time so I don’t mind having unplug. I just unplug the amp side and plug into my other amp and run.

Pontus II might be the best deal in audio land. Pure gold!!!
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 8:21 PM Post #644 of 1,800
I am 100% in agreement with you. I just recently picked a fight on ASR because it is this weird world of measurements and figurines and seems to forget that music is a visceral experience and that great sound comes in all forms. Subjective listening differences are the whole point! And I agree that PRAT is the single most important quality. It is what I look for with all my gear. The space between the notes, instrument placement, soundstage which allows your music to breath, and Pace/Timing. All what I consider to be the lifeblood of my music. Not to mention Tonality/timbre. The Pontus II just seems to get all of this and allows me to connect to my music in ways I couldn't before owning it. My favorite headphone of all time is the Hifiman Code X. It isn't the most detailed headphone, but it nails Tonality/Timbre and enables me to get as close as possible to the rhythm and pace of my music.

Bravo! I love your perspective!!! Breath of fresh air...
What I really like about the Pontus is that it is able to present pace by revealing the relationships between the different elements in a track of music. The Qutest presents a more traditional audio perspective on the presentation of pace with a focus mainly on the "beat". I've actually resisted digital for over 30 years because analog seems to do better in conveying some of the relationships in music performance that matter to me. +1 on the Pontus being an amazing value!
 
Dec 6, 2021 at 9:02 PM Post #645 of 1,800

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