Denafrips Dac Line Comparisons Thread.

What Denafips Dacs Have You Listened To?

  • Ares

    Votes: 33 61.1%
  • Pontus

    Votes: 16 29.6%
  • Venus

    Votes: 7 13.0%
  • Terminator

    Votes: 13 24.1%

  • Total voters
    54
Aug 23, 2017 at 11:03 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 27

bennyhaha812

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Calling all Denafrips dac owners to post your listening experiences here! What model Denafrips do you have or have you had the opportunity to hear? What dacs have you listened to against this Denafrips unit and what were your opinions? Please feel free to add any other experiences you've had with this line good or bad.
 
Aug 23, 2017 at 4:00 PM Post #3 of 27
Hi there from sunny Italy!
We have quite a big community of Denafrips owners here. I bought the Ares this year on April the 1st, but apparently I was not a fool :wink:
It arrived quite quickly on April the 10th, and I paid the shipping expenses (now included in the price list) and the customs (not included in the price list).

Just out of the box the Ares sounded, well, dull and cheap. I had to wait for at least 100 hours of burn-in time to hear good sound, but still lacking resolution in the top end and weight in the low end. Everything got better after 150 hours, and even better after 200 hours. This is the first time that a piece of gear took it so long to really open up and sound at its full potential. After 250 hours of burn-in time I officialy declared the Ares fully burned-in and went on to listen unabashedly to all my favourite records. All sounded natural and pleasant, both musically and sound-wise. The Ares response is quite ruler flat and everything sounded unstrained, the dynamics are HUGE and the soundstage is really wide but *naturally wide*, so to speak. It does not sound like a Special FX, it sounds more like real musicians playing in a real space. Everything was better with the Ares than with my former Dac, a PS-Audio Nuwave DSD (that costs twice as much than the Ares). Quite a statement, since before listening to the Ares I though that the Nuwave DSD was the best buy in his league. Now it's the Ares, and you can even save a lot of money. Eventually, I sold my PS-Audio Nuwave DSD to a friend of mine for more or less the price I paid for the Ares.

All's well that ends well? Not quite. In July I hosted a small meeting of Denafrips owners and enthusiasts in my small-ish listening room. Fellow Denafrips owner Paolo brought his Pontus Dac, and so I was really eager to listen to it, since the Pontus is more in the price range of my former PS-Audio Dac. Well, I was in for a real treat. If you start listening to the Ares, the Pontus is the proverbial More Of The Same. The Ares has ruler flat response and the Pontus sounds, well, not flatter but more extended in the very low and the very high end. And is still ruler flat, no artificial bass oooomph and sparkly treble. The Ares sounds natural and unstrained, and the Pontus sound even more natural and unstrained. The Ares has HUGE dynamics, and the Pontus has... well, after listening to the Pontus, I should probably say that the Pontus has HUGE dynamics and the Ares has (only) very impressive dynamics. I wonder what kind of dynamics could the Terminator possibly have... scary! The Ares has a really wide soundstage, and the Pontus has a wider soundstage. Musically moving records (like the excellent 2L's Magnificat record at its full resolution, a whopping 352.8 KHz/24 bits) are even more musically moving. The bass weight of the Pontus is incredible.
So, I am just waiting for the right occasion to upgrade to the Pontus.

Conclusions:
The Ares is still the best buy in its price range. I could never hear, or imagine, a piece of gear sound so good for about 600€, plus customs.
But, if you can afford the Pontus, my advice is that you should definitely go for it. It sounds just like the Ares, but twice as good, as well as twice as expensive. Quite unusual!

Both Dacs sound at their best with DSD music, but Hi-Res Wav music and standard definition music sound just as good, let's just say that you can really hear solid improvements as you get higher resolution music. Their USB input is really good. The Ares has XMOS and the Pontus has Amanero. Bot chips are very high quality ones, but I think that the Amanero has an edge over the XMOS. Even listening to old-school CDs with a CD transport is quite an experience and if you are not interested in liquid music you can still enjoy the Ares or the Pontus. Try, for example, the last track "Nada" of the wonderful standard resolution CD "Haruka" from Gaia Cuatro (Abeat Records) with a good transport. I used an old but trusty Teac P-700 VRDS transport through old school coax SPDIF and got excellent results.
Just think what a modern transport like a CEC, connected via AES/EBU, could do with the Pontus.

Regards, Stefano
 
Aug 23, 2017 at 4:24 PM Post #4 of 27
Awesome input Stefano! Thanks. This is exactly the kind of real life experiences I am hoping to get from everyone out there. I have yet to have the opportunity to hear the Denafrips equipment but plan on making a purchase of the Venus by year end. I have been milling through numerous forums and thought it might be good to start one dedicated to this equipment in hopes of getting a solid consolidated feedback thread for all to see. Maybe this will help others who like myself won't have the opportunity to hear one of these units before buying get some comparisons and personal real life experiences . I hope to hear from others soon.
 
Aug 23, 2017 at 4:56 PM Post #5 of 27
Awesome input Stefano! Thanks. This is exactly the kind of real life experiences I am hoping to get from everyone out there. I have yet to have the opportunity to hear the Denafrips equipment but plan on making a purchase of the Venus by year end. I have been milling through numerous forums and thought it might be good to start one dedicated to this equipment in hopes of getting a solid consolidated feedback thread for all to see. Maybe this will help others who like myself won't have the opportunity to hear one of these units before buying get some comparisons and personal real life experiences . I hope to hear from others soon.

Thanks a lot, Benny :grin::grin:

Well, nobody can buy a new Denafrips Dac after listening to it in an audio shop, you have to trust someone for that. And I can understand that this can be quite disappointing... but I trusted Claudio De Pasquale, the guy who started it all in Italy, and I definitely am NOT regretting it. I have to say that, before really trusting his judgement, I had a quite long chat with Claudio and I asked him about his gear, his goals in reproducing audio, the audio companies he likes and so on. It was more or less a thorough "audio examination". Only after I was convinced that Claudio is a real audiophile guy did I order my Ares.
In my point of view that makes the process even more... human. You buy Denafrips because you as a human trust some other human that raves about it.

If you end up buying a Venus or any other Denafrips Dac, please bear in mind that it won't absolutely play at its full potential before at least 200 hours of burn in time, and that it's really best if you never switch it off from the back switch. You should definitely switch it on in the morning from the front switch and then switch it off in the evening, always from the front switch. Use the back switch or disconnect the power cord only if you are travelling for a few days, or more.

Regards, Stefano
 
Aug 23, 2017 at 8:23 PM Post #7 of 27
It helps knowing people who share ones passion for music. I am a fan of all style of music and have around 700 albums in lossless format ranging from classical to jazz, blues, reggae, hip hop, electric, metal rock n' roll, indie, country, folk and so on......
I collect 78 records as well and have over 1200 of them that get played on an old Victrola VV-XI. The 1917 unit is in terrific condition and I rebuilt the reproducer or "soundbox." Also have an old 1933 GE K-50 cathedral am radio that works! So not only do I share a passion for music, but also for the machines we build to reproduce it. I built my amplifier which was a kit sold by Bob Latino who resides the same part of Massachusetts. He does Dynaco tube amps. I wanted to build monoblocks but considering cost and space ended up with the VTA ST-120. My preamplifier is a custom line stage that I built. Don Sachs was kind enough to guide me when I had questions and I would highly recommend anyone looking for a preamp contact him for your purchase. I would have had to have spent $6-10K to have anything that would compete!! Currently I use a Music Hall 25.3 that I modded. I have all the blue prints for the unit and with them was able to upgrade resistors, capacitors, power rectifiers, clock, Dexa New Class D discrete op amps, Mazda 7308 tube and sound dampening. The unit was purchased from Spearit sound, a local shop that just closed unfortunately as the owner retired. Now I have nowhere around local to listen to stuff :frowning2:
I got a deal on the dac as it was a display unit when I purchased it. Probably cost a total $800-900 after mods. I might have been able to spend that outright at the time to buy something more expensive, but not sure it would have been better than my hot rod. The dac is now almost 8 years old and it's time to upgrade. Speakers are Vienna Acoustic Mozart.
I have always tried with each upgrade to find the best system synergy value for my dollar. I continue to pursue a natural "life-like" sound signature with accurate sound. A sound stage that is wider than the speakers and deeper than the back wall with every musician accurately placed in space with well defined air between them. I love closing my eyes as I listen and feeling like the musicians are in the room with me. This is what I love and desire in my equipment and have come closer each time. The dac is my oldest piece at this point and the area I feel will now give the greatest improvement. It's good now but I know it can be better! I started my search when the Gustard was all the rave with many people. Yggdrasil was what caught my attention for R2R and I continued to research. The more I read the more I felt it was time to get away from delta-sigma and try the R2R. Seems that many feel this dac design provides what I am looking for in sound thus my interest with the Denafrips. I had been looking at Audio GD too, but read many mixed opinions. Have read nothing but good news with the Denafrips.
 
Aug 24, 2017 at 2:08 AM Post #8 of 27
Have you ever had the inclusion of a new component in your system literally upset any of your certainty that, until then, had you laboriously realized? And I do not mean differences that are comparable to nuances, difficult to perceive situations, but rather to a very marked difference, in all reference parameters, to listening.
This is exactly what has happened since I entered the Dac Terminator, a flagship product of the Chinese manufacturer named DENAFRIPS, in my chain of listening. Everything started a few months ago when, during reading a thread on head-fi forum about a dac, I embarked on the enthusiastic comments of a russian user who magnified the dictates of a small dac with R2R Ladder technology named Ares, which is the product entry level of DENAFRIPS. The investment required for its purchase was pretty modest if compared to the figures that run in our hobby, just under $ 600 and bought directly from the only authorized worldwide distributor, Vinshine Audio Singapore, and I launched in it. Already after a few dozen hours of burn-in, strongly recommended by the manufacturer, the little Ares has begun to unlock absolute performance, unthinkable for an object of that price and comparable to dac more expensive.
And as the appetite is eating, I decided to challenge myself considering the purchase of the top range Terminator. In fact, I said to myself, "Claudio, if the little Ares already sounds better than that, what can be the performance of his big older brother?"
And so just over two months ago I ended the Terminator purchase, of course always online, which affectionately, I renamed Arnold, is so massive and heavy.
The Terminator is a dac R2R with four counters of 500 high-precision 0.005% laser-cut resistors, with a nominal resolution of 26bit, capable of reproducing both PCM format up to 384khz and DSD up to 11.2Mhz (DSD256) in native mode. Of course all the components are at the top, Cristek Femto Clock oscillators used with FIFO technology to ensure that the dac clock is independent of the input signal, Amanero usb input, power supplies with two toroidal transformers of 250VA and 60VA low noise , Elna Silmic capacitors, M Cap and Stargest at very low ESR, WALT Jung voltage regulators with very low ripple and many other high quality components. The digital inputs are 9 so distributed: 1 usb, 3 i2s (1 on hdmi and 2 on rj45), 2 AES / EBU, 1 toslink optic, 2 spdif (rca and bnc). I think a few dacs for sale, if not anyone, can have such an entry input that can satisfy any kind of connection. The outputs are the classic XLR and RCA, the dac is native balanced.
On the thick brushed aluminum front, like the entire frame, we find the Standby button in the center and then left to right the two input selection keys, the Mute button, the OS / NOS, the Phase key, and finally the Mode key that serves to select the two Slow and Sharp digital filters as well as to activate some special features, including the firmware update. No control of the volume or even the remote control, DENAFRIPS wanted to remove all the accessories that could have affected the sonic result in any way. All components are mounted on FPGA cards, wiring is absent. The Terminator at the balance test pays a weight of just 19 kg, demonstrating that you did not want to save on anything.
The Terminator was inserted into my system liquid consisting of two-pcs fiber-optic connected server-naa player, preamp Spectral DMC20 balanced series 2 (from July 2017 Soulution 721), amps Gamut D200i and M250i endorsing, in my mood, an Infinity IRS Beta in active biamplification or a pair of Magneplanar 3.6R in passive biamplification. The connection to the preamp was made using the XLR connections. To avoid misunderstanding I want to specify that I'm an Italian audiophile with more than 30 years of listening experience.
The Terminator, in contrast to the Ares, does not need a long run, since it has been factory-burnt-in for about 100 consecutive hours, and in fact has unveiled superb performance right away, I would say to the limit of excellence. The earliest feature of the ear is its ability to extract from the files that are given to him such a quantity of unthinkable informations(compared to my Mark Levinson 360S as reference), combined with a quantity of harmonics that seem to be stationary for air, so much is their decay time. As some reference discs (Marialy Pacheco - Introducing), the detail and refinement in listening to the music message reaches very high, never heard before, as well as dynamics. The attacks are of a crazy speed and the crescendo in some tracks of symphonic music (Giocchino Rossini - The thieving magpie, Alexander Borodin - Symphony No. 2 Prince Igor) seems to never end. Even at low volumes, the return of the information being transferred is excellent, with a truly remarkable intellegibility, not even a note is lost. Going to the soundstage, I have to overcome the superlatives, deep in all three dimensions, well beyond the physical limits of the bottom wall and with a 180 degree horizontal aperture, virtually wall-to-wall. It almost seems to be in the midst of the music event with a holography that only machines of quite a few costs can reproduce. Using the filters you can shape the sound according to your own tastes, I prefer using the SHARP filter also because I'm a fan of transparency and detail but it never has to end in listening fatigue; with the LOW filter you have a lightweight roll-off on the medium high that, with some systems, can be of utmost benefit. Returning to the main features of the Terminator, the bass is very fast and deep, dry enough, with no hint of rubberiness, medium frequencies, especially with female voices (Cecile McLorin Salvant - Woman Child, Roberta Gambarini - Easy to love, Maria Callas - Rossini and Donizzetti Arias) are of a shocking beauty, rich, fleshy and at the same time succinct, the medium record reaches incredible definition levels without ever going into hyperanalyticism; In one word the Terminator can be termed a musical object, one of those few hifi components that makes you forget to listen to the system, which you would listen for hours and hours focusing only on music and forgetting everything else. And of these times is not very little.
And finally we come to the "bad notes", how much does all this well of God cost? I'm telling you that Terminator has a price comparable to a good-quality hi-end cable, only $ 3980, at the current exchange rate of just over 3500 euros, with a three-year full warranty and after-sale service, tested personally and also by several friends of mine who have bought DENAFRIPS dacs in recent times, simply unthinkable for our European standards.
One last tip, if you want to find dac comparable to the Terminator, go look at the catalogs of the most prestigious manufacturers and pay your attention to 10K euros (11K dollars or more)up there, as well as possible disappointments, as happened to some of my italian friend, dacs owners of the cost of a utility car (for example Cary Audio DMC600SE or DCS Debussy) , who wanted to compare its dac with Terminator.

Claudio

P.S.
This review was written in May 2017.
 
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Aug 24, 2017 at 8:35 AM Post #9 of 27
This is the feeling I got when I went to tubes! The line stage design by Don Sachs gave me this type of listening sensation. It was shortly after this that I upgraded my amplification to tubes as well and I have been dreaming of the unlocked potential within my system that an amazing dac like the one you describe might set free upon the molecules of air that surrounds us in the form of pure unadulterated music! I am a man of little means which is why I search for value and build what I can and although I would love to purchase a Terminator, it remains beyond my wife's tolerable threshold for spending on audio equipment hence my decision to go with Arnold's little sister Venus who shares the same DNA. I hope that my decision will yield me at least 90% of the Terminator's capabilities at an approximately 35% less cost. I contacted Mr. Chee and explained my budget and he was kind enough to provide me with the wiggle room necessary to make the purchase and live to experience it!! Just kidding of course, my wife is amazing and enjoys listening too, but we have to be realistic about what we can afford and so I will be buying the Venus as a Christmas present to my wife and myself this year. After your post Claudio I now feel confident that I am making the right decision! GRAZIE!!!
 
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Aug 24, 2017 at 8:45 AM Post #10 of 27
Alvin could you give us your opinion since you are the only one who has stated you've heard all four Denafrips Dacs and no one has responded to the poll as hearing Venus yet. If you were able to put a percentage on Terminator's ability at 100% what percentage of its ability would Venus capture? You don't have to answer of course but I am personally interested as you know. You can always PM me it you prefer although many might be interested. We all realize, I think, that this type of question is hypothetical and dependent on many factors including system synergy and personal perspective so it is an abstract percentage given purely as an opinion and not guaranteed......
 
Aug 24, 2017 at 9:17 AM Post #11 of 27
Alvin could you give us your opinion since you are the only one who has stated you've heard all four Denafrips Dacs and no one has responded to the poll as hearing Venus yet. If you were able to put a percentage on Terminator's ability at 100% what percentage of its ability would Venus capture? You don't have to answer of course but I am personally interested as you know. You can always PM me it you prefer although many might be interested. We all realize, I think, that this type of question is hypothetical and dependent on many factors including system synergy and personal perspective so it is an abstract percentage given purely as an opinion and not guaranteed......

Sir @bennyhaha812, you're a logical and rationale person, i guess you've pretty much had the brief answer.

There are a few Venus users, i knew @rigo is a member here. @rigo , would you please chime in to shed some light :beyersmile:
 
Aug 24, 2017 at 9:41 AM Post #12 of 27
I wish I could compare the Venus or Terminator to my Holo Spring KTE L3, but I'm afraid I cannot purchase either at this moment. I am very, very tempted to sell the Spring, but I'm weary that the difference would be minimal. Hopefully someone has had the opportunity to compare.
 
Aug 28, 2017 at 11:51 AM Post #14 of 27
Greg121986:
If you are in or near CT, I have the Terminator, we can arrange a listening session. That could be very educational and fun. :)
bennyhaha812:

I have had the Ares, and the pontus as well. I can tell you that the Denafrips sings above their price tags. Ares is killer for the price, Pontus is enough for most mortals.IMHO
I have not had the chance to listened to the Venus, But, listening to my Terminator, I'd guess that the Venus is a fine piece of machinery for music lovers
BTW: There is almost 200 member in the Denafrips Facebook group.
I urge anyone to check it out and perhaps ask questions if needed or comment.
 
Aug 28, 2017 at 2:37 PM Post #15 of 27
Thank you kindly for the offer! I may take you up on that at some point as I live in Western Ma. in Deerfield. I have been quite convinced based on my research and the testaments of owners and those who've heard these units that they are the real deal. I have decided to go for the Venus as I believe it will be the final component to complete my system. It is a touch above what I budgeted but given that is identical to the Terminator with the exception of the power supply I don't see how I can go wrong. We're talking about a 60VA x 2 vs 250VA + 60VA O type power supply and a slightly different circuit with additional capacitance. There's also the additional i2s connectivity for the Terminator which I don't need. Aside from this, the units share all the same technology and hi end parts. I know the Terminator is better, but I need to stay within the budget I set and and additional grand isn't worth the 5-10% improvement. I also have to consider the wife factor! As much as I would like to go all out I don't think this could be seen as "settling" as these units all get rave reviews worldwide by those who have heard them. I plan to take a little of the difference and pair the Venus with a Singxer SU-1. I will modify the Singxer myself and may add some sound coat to the Venus. I still have a couple sheets here from other projects so might as well put them to use. Thanks Greg! I'll take a look at the Facebook page too.
 

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