[Lolito]

My Ares is 2 weeks old... Now I do not use te topping for music ever. It is a great sounding dac, easy listening as if it was 1985 with a proper sansui super feed forward system, music for hours and hours. Digital limitations are now over with this.

 

[sajunky]

When using SE cables, increase the volume to match the xlr. You will observe that there is very likely identical dynamics. XLR may possibly have "more potential" in more energy due to the strength of the signal from the get go vs the weaker signal from single ended.

+1. Just I need to add that unless volume control is made with stepped attenuator there will be a small difference in input filtering with an ordinary pot. Typically there is observed increased colouration while increasing a volume, it may affect your comparison.

 

[]eep]

Yeah man, but I do not work on Denafrips you know. Some people buy something and because they bought it has to be the best ever in the world. Let me tell you something, this dac has less detail than the typical equivalent delta sigma dac of less than 200$ that measures very well in ASR. And it is not the end of the world, it sounds great, uber-hyper-musical. But it lacks detail compared to those. It will be ok, do not worry mate. Also, if you do your research you will find out that this DAC is always in OS mode, it is an OS dac, and even when you put it in NOS mode, it is doing some OS in the DSP anyways. Denafrips do not really reveal what they do inside, they want to keep the receipt for them. But let me tell you somethign very obvious: this DAC has less detail than that other dac, for sure.

I'll answer here lest I forget. I didn't have time to read up last week.

I have said this many times before: the Ares or any other R2R dac I personally heard or have does NOT dig out less detail. The NOS doesn't create that artificial sparkle on top that sigma delta does that looks like detail but in fact hides the real information on tone, transients and placement. So even when it seems softer on top you can look further into the recording as if you were there.
So I'm wondering just how to interpret your narrative on your observations. I'm not denying it, just wondering where the discrepancy lies. Is it just different vocabulary or is there a real difference.

On the alleged 'it's not real NOS' by Goldensound... the jury is still out on that. For my own part, I'm not fully convinced even when there is surely evidence pointing in the direction. The output of the Ares on the other hand fully points to NOS R2R as for sound quality. Maybe it's a different path, same destination yet I doubt it. It would mean I would have to review my theory on the absence of preringing as the main reason for the natural sound of NOS R2R.

As for your last words 'for sure', that would mean; no doubt, without exception, that leaves no room for rebuke, interpretation or change of heart. I don't think you should speak in those terms. Life is not a rap song.

 

[]eep]

On XLR or RCA connection. I have them working on the Ares simultaneously. XLR to the SP400 HP/preamp with relais volume to passive switch relais (2 XLR 8 strand braided silver plated 6N OFC) , the RCA direct via Cardas to switch relais box. I can switch at the push of a button... I hear no difference. I want to, I try to... Nothing. I could say all the advantage is taken away by the extra component in between but that would mean there is a difference caused by the cable that is is the reverse opposite of the preamp. Not plausible.

Also with this setup there is no problem using both outputs of the Ares at the same time. Relais stops one or the other.

 

[Lolito]

I'll answer here lest I forget. I didn't have time to read up last week.

I have said this many times before: the Ares or any other R2R dac I personally heard or have does NOT dig out less detail. The NOS doesn't create that artificial sparkle on top that sigma delta does that looks like detail but in fact hides the real information on tone, transients and placement. So even when it seems softer on top you can look further into the recording as if you were there.
So I'm wondering just how to interpret your narrative on your observations. I'm not denying it, just wondering where the discrepancy lies. Is it just different vocabulary or is there a real difference.

On the alleged 'it's not real NOS' by Goldensound... the jury is still out on that. For my own part, I'm not fully convinced even when there is surely evidence pointing in the direction. The output of the Ares on the other hand fully points to NOS R2R as for sound quality. Maybe it's a different path, same destination yet I doubt it. It would mean I would have to review my theory on the absence of preringing as the main reason for the natural sound of NOS R2R.

As for your last words 'for sure', that would mean; no doubt, without exception, that leaves no room for rebuke, interpretation or change of heart. I don't think you should speak in those terms. Life is not a rap song.

Mmmmm... I understand what you mean, but no, it has less detail. Yes, it is not flat, so yea you have to hear it, when instrument has been spatially moved in an audio presentation sense, some have been moved back, you gotta listen for those to hear that detail. Maybe now there is a spatial audio detail that before was completely missing, so there is now some extra detail, that before was not there. All in all, I prefer the ARES. But let's not try to foul ourselves, there is a world out there trying to foul you... This DAC has less detail than a good measuring one, in terms of resolution, resolving. In those other dacs, you do hear differences between mp3, and then red book and then higher stuff...

With the ares... It really doesnt matter, but between red book and higher res... It's like the Ares is doing something completely different, not concerned about that. BUT, it is less resolving and gives less detail, you can look at that upside down, sideways, under water, half body submerged. You can maybe get a cowboy boots, fill it up with jelly, then you can get naked, step your feet in those boots, and hear the DAC. Even in such situation, the ARES gives less detail, hehe. Yes, the other has edging, the other one has that fake detail, the other one tricks you with the sound presentation, seeming to give more detail of what is actually giving, yes, sure, but even without the fake detail, it does give more resolution. In my case I have a pro studio speakers, with pro studio sub, so I want a dac like this and a class A pre amp, then I can oversample audio 2x at reproduction... Overall, so much better the ARES. but it is giving less detail. Even if tomorrow ET comes back to earth, the ASR kings give more detail, more fake detail, and more real detail too.

The pontus, I have not tried it, but an ARES, it gives less detail ;-D

 

[]eep]

I don't have less detail... So you must be missing something somewhere. Lost in translation. So logically you can't make the general statement that the Ares is to blame. In your system? Probably.
In my system I can hear everything. I am listening to very similar speakers, only the big difference is mine are not 'active'. I have very good amplification and I made sure my crossovers are as transparent as possible (designed and made them myself, see). Fullrange titanium with an AMT on top (very high F x-over). Only 1 resistor for level correction in the range mid bass to treble. Tweeter has premium caps. I bet Adam Audio has to compromise somewhere in their amplification and filtering even though the drivers are great. That's why many audiophiles don't like active speakers, you give to much control away. Often they sound ruler flat, but dead. Too much filtering.

Studio listening is different from listening to music. I know because I've had studio monitors too for a long time. The famous Roger's BBC LS3/5a. Untill I got tired of them. I missed the sparkle, the bass, detail. Too much filtering. These speakers I just finished are just like the LS3/5a, only better. (before and after that I had Reference 3A, something the complete opposite with only 1 cap, and Genesis VI little brothers to those big screens made by Arnie Nudell, late partner of Paul McGowan of PS Audio you see in his videos).

In short, to me it sounds like you have a ceiling in your system. Active monitors are less scalable due to the electronics. What you lose by that is probably similar to what a sigma delta dac does. What an R2R could keep/gain is lost (temporal integrity). So you can't hear the benefit of that. I think.

 

[Lolito]

it's not a blame at all, sounds better. That is a blame is just another of your assumptions. Don't assume or foul yourself. But it has less detail, they call it FACTS. Could I be wrong? certainly, not impossible. Time travel is impossible. But I don't say I think it has less detail, I say the thing has less detail, not a personal opinion. Just as john darko also heard and commented. It's not a system problem, i can connect a headphones straight to the rca, and it will have less detail than an Amir dac, again, upside down, sideways, high on coke or with roger speaker through the rear.

 

[]eep]

I'm not assuming, just reasoning. Trying to get to the possible cause because what you state is not a fact but an opinion. You are giving a lot of opinions, which is fine, just state them as such and keep the discussion fair. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

This is an opinion. My opinion. I skip John Darko's YouTube because I noticed several times that he has some sort of perculiar bias that irritates me. He acts like an authority but imho he isn't. Not that I am (I don't have a YouTube channel ) but he made several statements that do not correlate to my experience (on the Ares being one). As is the case with most 'influencers'. Also another Australian guy (Robinson?), I skip him because he tries to hard to go against the grain (verging on click bait sometimes). Sometimes people get tired, jaded, or just over enthousiastic and throw away the baby with the bathwater.

If you value YouTube reviews you should watch the last reviews of cheapaudioman on the Bifrost, D90se and the Ares II, the Ares and the D90se where he states exactly the opposite namely that the Ares has more detail. My point being; not that he is right or Darko is right but that they are both opposite opinions that should be taken with a grain of salt. If both were 'FACTS' (quoting capitals for effect) they cannot both be true.

There are other reviewers on YouTube that I do like. Open, honest, discerning and knowledgeable.

 

[AlanU]

Mmmmm... I understand what you mean, but no, it has less detail. Yes, it is not flat, so yea you have to hear it, when instrument has been spatially moved in an audio presentation sense, some have been moved back, you gotta listen for those to hear that detail. Maybe now there is a spatial audio detail that before was completely missing, so there is now some extra detail, that before was not there. All in all, I prefer the ARES. But let's not try to foul ourselves, there is a world out there trying to foul you... This DAC has less detail than a good measuring one, in terms of resolution, resolving. In those other dacs, you do hear differences between mp3, and then red book and then higher stuff...

With the ares... It really doesnt matter, but between red book and higher res... It's like the Ares is doing something completely different, not concerned about that. BUT, it is less resolving and gives less detail, you can look at that upside down, sideways, under water, half body submerged. You can maybe get a cowboy boots, fill it up with jelly, then you can get naked, step your feet in those boots, and hear the DAC. Even in such situation, the ARES gives less detail, hehe. Yes, the other has edging, the other one has that fake detail, the other one tricks you with the sound presentation, seeming to give more detail of what is actually giving, yes, sure, but even without the fake detail, it does give more resolution. In my case I have a pro studio speakers, with pro studio sub, so I want a dac like this and a class A pre amp, then I can oversample audio 2x at reproduction... Overall, so much better the ARES. but it is giving less detail. Even if tomorrow ET comes back to earth, the ASR kings give more detail, more fake detail, and more real detail too.

The pontus, I have not tried it, but an ARES, it gives less detail ;-D

Lolito,

Dacs are a strange conversion unit. Perhaps Pontus may provide more detail but we are talking about a higher tier device.

May I suggest to be an "action" person.....

1) change the wall receptacle from a "spec build $3" receptacle to a higher quality one. I suggest Pass/Seymour 5362-W (This is the identical unit SR Blue-UEF duplex sells.)
2) Borrow/audition different power cords to Ares II.
3) Borrow/audition different DDC devices.
4) Borrow/audition different single ended interconnects and XLR cables.
5) More controversial topics, audition an audio grade ethernet switch that feeds your laptop/streamer.
6) FREEBIE advice .......plug your ARES II directly into the wall receptacle. Flow of music can possibly impress you!!!!!!!

Until you action the list I provided, you are not seeking the optimum variables. This is where things can change from unit to unit.

I've been experimenting a lot lately. I have done some changes that even make me shake my head when I do a series of hardcore ABX blind fold/non verbal testing.
I will conclude that I will not talk unless I action. I will be serious here and say I upgraded my DC cables on my linear power supply to my Silent Angel ethernet N8 switch. The latest DC cable upgrade is called Bastei. I did not comment or assume until I tested with ABX tests. The change was bold and brutally obvious. Focus and staging was incredibly holographic using "Black Tiramisu" DC cable.

My point here is that we all have opinions and views on audio. If you genuinely try different components and use your ears. This is the fun of this stuff.

You took a leap of faith and jumped on a Denafrips DAC. If you tested this dac with different interconnects and PC cord. You may audibly hear a big change.

Do not limit your experience. Borrow a friends Senn HD800 and match it with the ares ii sound signature. That combo may possibly provide you that open sound with the analog characteristic of the R2R dac. If you miss the bass, EQ the cans to make it work for your pleasure.

You headgear with current components may just miss the mark in synergy. This is where you may get the impression of lacking detail, however your interconnect may be the bottle neck for the lack of resolution / fidelity. Hard call as you have not dove into this cabling nonsense that my ears can effortlessly detect in blind fold tests. I DO NOT own a pair of "Golden" human ears. However, I can use my "tools" and tweak where I see fit.

If you had a nice pair of interconnects, this may simply be the ticket to bliss with NO complaints of lacking detail.

Just remember, changing the DAC is not the ticket for automatic audio nirvana. This one variable now needs to be able to have synergy with your other components. The headphones may have been able to tame the output of your amp. Now that you have changed upstream, DO NOT assume everything downstream is going to have "synergy". As I said, try a slightly more transparent and exciting headphone. You may possibly be in for a big surprise how it sound from the ARES II being the DAC converter.

Audio is a collective product of gear. Recently I purchased a Ferrum Hypsos sophisticated variable voltage power supply and of all things DC upgrade cables to my ethernet switch. NOTE, the two things are NOT audio components. I feel that again...... purchased audio components while it's all about the source pre dac.

Genuinely try to go down my list. Try 1, 2, 4 and 6.

 

[]eep]

I am going to say something really out of character here...

Normally I would suggest that everything flows from the source. But in this case... I looked up the Adam Audio A7x. And what I read was in line with what I wrote above. And I do think that active monitor speakers (even highly praised ones like Adam Audio) of €1000 pp will not do justice to the Ares. There are too many adjustments and electronics inside that totally counter the strengths of a minimalistic R2R dac.

The strength of the Ares is it's minimalistic approach with the best possible components. The cheap Adam Audio line is just the opposite! That's like teaming up a free spirited artist with a control freak. Marc Almond singing with auto tune. Recipe for disaster. Ok, that is over the top, but it simply is like two opposite paths or visions that do not enhance eachother or improve on the others weaknesses. Try to borrow or audition some good passive speakers with a decent amplifier.

What I read is that the AMT and woofer have different character and transient behaviour (correct) and the AMT is super fast and airy but can sound weird. I own a pair of original ESS Heill AMT towers and made several speakers with planars and AMT's. AMT's are my favorites but you HAVE to know how to filter them. And you need lightning fast mids to couple them so they integrate well. But for matching with the Ares you would want to get rid of all the fiddling with the filter and amplification.

I don't want to criticize your system or take away your appreciation. I am just trying to help you get even more out of it with what I know.

 

[Lolito]

I'm already very happy how the DAC sounds, why should I try all those things? I am really really happy with how it sounds, I think it is a great purchase, and I will not spend any single dollar more on it. Already purchased 0.5m power cable for 3.5€ each, pro cable, very thick. Enough spent on this sir. My next upgrade will be update the firmware to the one that gives no Mac problem, the newest one. Then do the bolt tuning like the German guy on youtube says, then XLR cable for my new audeze. And not much more to be honest. I have very good interconnects, both RCA and XLR. I bet silver may affect the sound, not gonna spend on that. I will just to the mentioned changes, then just keep listening. There is no hurries on this journey folks, no need for concorde nuclear engine just yet. I already did DC mod on my amp, I put back the original feet, so now much more elevated, breathing so much better, not as hot as before. Happy with that.

The DAC locks the mac, that is my main issue now really, soundwise I could not be happier.

What I will spend money on is on soldering my own cables, doing extensions in XLR 4 pin cables, with 4 core cables, and custom chosen neutrik connectors, 90 degrees connectors, Rean mini XLR connectors... heat shrink tubes, wire cutters. Gonna mod the cables myself, save money and learn on the way. Also part of the journey.

But thank you for taking the effort of pointing out those different possible ways of improving the sound in the future, or tweaking, or ust other possibles roads in this journey, I appreciate the knowledge shared by folks with much more experience. Power cables making a different seems hard to believe, but I trust so many people say it can. I am also open to an affordable DDC to isolate or clean USB, but for next year or later. Enough money spent this year.

 

[Lolito]

I am going to say something really out of character here...

Normally I would suggest that everything flows from the source. But in this case... I looked up the Adam Audio A7x. And what I read was in line with what I wrote above. And I do think that active monitor speakers (even highly praised ones like Adam Audio) of €1000 pp will not do justice to the Ares. There are too many adjustments and electronics inside that totally counter the strengths of a minimalistic R2R dac.

The strength of the Ares is it's minimalistic approach with the best possible components. The cheap Adam Audio line is just the opposite! That's like teaming up a free spirited artist with a control freak. Marc Almond singing with auto tune. Recipe for disaster. Ok, that is over the top, but it simply is like two opposite paths or visions that do not enhance eachother or improve on the others weaknesses. Try to borrow or audition some good passive speakers with a decent amplifier.

What I read is that the AMT and woofer have different character and transient behaviour (correct) and the AMT is super fast and airy but can sound weird. I own a pair of original ESS Heill AMT towers and made several speakers with planars and AMT's. AMT's are my favorites but you HAVE to know how to filter them. And you need lightning fast mids to couple them so they integrate well. But for matching with the Ares you would want to get rid of all the fiddling with the filter and amplification.

I don't want to criticize your system or take away your appreciation. I am just trying to help you get even more out of it with what I know.

Learn something at least kid. 65 year old, still a kid. A young mind is a blessing after all.

 

[Lolito]

new cable for the topping, 10€ aliexpress shipped 1 m.

 

[TheRealDz]

new cable for the topping, 10€ aliexpress shipped 1 m.

Pics are great and all...but how do they SOUND???

 

[Lolito]

I can't a/b a usb cable, and I would not trust myself. This newer cable though looks much more sturdy and resistant, and will not be kinked. It is just a good usb cable, shoud sound good cause not gonna spend more on such cable. Just by physical construction, has to be less prone to interferences or catching noise, I guess. And anyways, if it's gonna go to a busy cheap usb 3.0 hub... gotta fix the firmware problem first.