[sajunky]

That's news to me.
So ideally the Ares 2 should be plugged into a USB 2.0 hub using a usb2.0 cable instead of directly into the PC?

I would need to purchase a usb 2.0 hub to test this out.....

To save searching, there are details.

Yes, it is a common issue, not only related to Ares. A DAC use high speed USB 2.0 transfers. Super speed transfers use a separate pair of wires which is unused and floating (unterminated) on the receiver side. It cause interference and under certain condition can disturb transfers.

Cable issue was Lolito's own discovery, for me it was to obvious. I just recommended to use USB 2.0 root port on the PC (if present), and/or USB 2.0 hub. 2.0 port is less noisy, 2.0 hub do not generate 3.0 frequency noise as well. BTW, it does reclocking (but not reclocking in audio means - it is buffering each frame and preparing a new frame for sending, based on its own clock, called Transaction Translator). Only important on longer cable runs.

If a hub is attached to the external power supply, it perform additional function, ground loops redirection (the same as iDefender).

An additional comment on using 2.0 hub. From the ground loops redirection perspective the best is to use a DAC as the only one device on the hub. If other devices are attached, it has to be a hub with MTT (Multi Transaction Translator) feature. It prevents slower devices (like keyboard or mouse) from degrading uplink to a full speed or even to low speed. It also prevents from enumeration errors. If you remember how USB 1.1 required to load drivers separately when plugging to a different port, you know what I mean.

 

[sajunky]

Duplicated

 

[Lolito2]

If you have a good transport, than you don’t need DDC for Ares II.

my transport is a 27" iMac with a 5k display, Audirvana 3.5, and quite a few of other devices connected. I do bot want to use a separate streamer or transport, I use my phone with the Audirvana app. Sounds great like this, only complaint is the whole usb cable to keyboard then to computer... would prefer a cleaner desktop.

 

[Thetaburn]

To save searching, there are details.

Yes, it is a common issue, not only related to Ares. A DAC use high speed USB 2.0 transfers. Super speed transfers use a separate pair of wires which is unused and floating (unterminated) on the receiver side. It cause interference and under certain condition can disturb transfers.

Cable issue was Lolito's own discovery, for me it was to obvious. I just recommended to use USB 2.0 root port on the PC (if present), and/or USB 2.0 hub. 2.0 port is less noisy, 2.0 hub do not generate 3.0 frequency noise as well. BTW, it does reclocking (but not reclocking in audio means - it is buffering each frame and preparing a new frame for sending, based on its own clock, called Transaction Translator). Only important on longer cable runs.

If a hub is attached to the external power supply, it perform additional function, ground loops redirection (the same as iDefender).

An additional comment on using 2.0 hub. From the ground loops redirection perspective the best is to use a DAC as the only one device on the hub. If other devices are attached, it has to be a hub with MTT (Multi Transaction Translator) feature. It prevents slower devices (like keyboard or mouse) from degrading uplink to a full speed or even to low speed. It also prevents from enumeration errors. If you remember how USB 1.1 required to load drivers separately when plugging to a different port, you know what I mean.

If I use a IFI iDefender with the Ares 2, does the iDefender need external power to work properly?

 

[sajunky]

If I use a IFI iDefender with the Ares 2, does the iDefender need external power to work properly?

Yip. Defender is the most effective when connected to the external power supply. In most cases... so be prepared for additional expense. Some smart users defeat purpose by plugging idefender power cable to another port on PC, iFi warns against.

Ground loop redirector must be wired properly. If it is a self powered 2.0 hub, a cable between PC and a hub must be short, using thick wires (not a thick plastic). It must be, a plain cable (sans moulded ferrites or ferrite clamps). Idefender will be plugged directly to a PC port. Power supply is plugged on the extension box close to the PC and a monitor.

A cable from redirector to a DAC can use thin wires (even better), but must have good shielding and should have ferrite chokes.

In such arrangement ground loops from PC will find easier way, closing loop on the redirector's power supply. This is a purpose, no magic.

 

[Thetaburn]

Yip. Defender is the most effective when connected to the external power supply. In most cases... so be prepared for additional expense. Some smart users defeat purpose by plugging idefender power cable to another port on PC, iFi warns against.

Ground loop redirector must be wired properly. If it is a self powered 2.0 hub, a cable between PC and a hub must be short, using thick wires (not a thick plastic). It must be, a plain cable (sans moulded ferrites or ferrite clamps). Idefender will be plugged directly to a PC port. Power supply is plugged on the extension box close to the PC and a monitor.

A cable from redirector to a DAC can use thin wires (even better), but must have good shielding and should have ferrite chokes.

In such arrangement ground loops from PC will find easier way, closing loop on the redirector's power supply. This is a purpose, no magic.

This should be in a FAQ or sticky section.

I had the Ares 2 plugged into the back of the PC into a usb 2.0 port. The sound was alright. Tried the usb 3.0 and 3.1 port, sound was about the same.

Today, plugged it into my keyboards usb 2.0 with a IFI idefender with an external power ( 5v 2a phone charger ) on the same power outlet as the Ares 2 dac.

Noticable improvement in sound seperation.

Thanks for the advice.

Since I am using a USB input, should I still be interested in getting a Douk Audio U2 pro as mentioned in this forum?

 

[Lolito2]

how is the improvement with the douk u2? can it be connected to regular usb 3.0 hub with hard drives and stuff?? thanks!!

 

[killthrash]

Anyone have experience with the Ares II and gaming? I heard you can't really use it because of the R2R latency?

 

[The Hawk]

Anyone have experience with the Ares II and gaming? I heard you can't really use it because of the R2R latency?

Can’t speak to experience but I’ve read it numerous times from various users that gaming and the Ares II don’t jive well as it has a latency that can vary between 40-90ms.

 

[killthrash]

Can’t speak to experience but I’ve read it numerous times from various users that gaming and the Ares II don’t jive well as it has a latency that can vary between 40-90ms.

I've heard that as well.

 

[PopZeus]

Not all R-2R DACs have poor latency. Just a quirk with Denafrips.

 

[killthrash]

Not all R-2R DACs have poor latency. Just a quirk with Denafrips.

That's the info I was looking for! Appreciate it. Would love to try a decent R2R dac, but would be using it for movies and games as well.

 

[Terozzzz]

Just adjust the latency to 2.1ms or something like that. Also use 16bit 44.1hz output. Not some 24 384lhz.

 

[keenerz]

The latency has nothing to do with their R2R ladder its just their FPGA FIFO Buffer implementation. It nice that reduces the effects of Jitter and stuff but adds a very little bit of delay to everything that comes into it. tbh I never really had a big issue with it but if you're sensitive to that type of thing it will by irritating.

 

[killthrash]

The latency has nothing to do with their R2R ladder its just their FPGA FIFO Buffer implementation. It nice that reduces the effects of Jitter and stuff but adds a very little bit of delay to everything that comes into it. tbh I never really had a big issue with it but if you're sensitive to that type of thing it will by irritating.

Appreciate the info. Is this specific to the Ares II or would a higher-end Denafrips model have the same latency?