[Music Alchemist]

  I have one more thing to add about the checksums (this is more for the readers not the posters).
 
A matching checksum will always be better than anyone's hearing, it proves beyond any doubt that the files are absolutely identical in every way. So if you are hearing a difference the source files are not the cause.
 
e.g. I have 2 files called "Original.wav" and "Copy.wav", both checksums match.
 
D:\TEST\New folder\Original.wav
39548924 bytes
CRC32: b0296c49
MD5: 1672fa2df397b3b966a3dd1367a3809e
SHA512: 0779da516dbe48a867ce6ff7e475a6c76b705fa2dcfd033a7d2032fbecbb92a3cdb4b33f07da6338ba4cf56469815bf5c561f08c002d84f5f038badba6ad4154
 
D:\TEST\New folder\Copy.wav
39548924 bytes
CRC32: b0296c49
MD5: 1672fa2df397b3b966a3dd1367a3809e
SHA512: 0779da516dbe48a867ce6ff7e475a6c76b705fa2dcfd033a7d2032fbecbb92a3cdb4b33f07da6338ba4cf56469815bf5c561f08c002d84f5f038badba6ad4154
 
If i attenuate "copy.wav" by -0.001 dB, not a single person would be able to hear this incredibly small change in volume level but if i look at the checksum i can tell the file has changed.
 
D:\TEST\New folder\Copy.wav
39548924 bytes
CRC32: d991dc8c
MD5: 36f9f06f2478f4a886181817afa8c171
SHA512: 625a08d717c5f6972013c4bfc41bf00f2d9e21b83405ca76ca09bf9c29ac5c81d8b4c93eceedfd10514c362a78e77dee66cf2b3ac5ff3d5beeb11900f988b0f2

This is very helpful. Thanks for sharing that. Which program did you use to generate the three checksums for each file?
 

   
I did a few more blind listening tests and here I found that for some reason my dBpoweramp rips were being done to 320k MP3.  I re-ripped a couple of discs and found that I couldn't tell a difference.  Even when I knew what I was listening to, I heard no difference.

I am glad that you were able to attain clarity. However, as you know, the differences in my case were perceived on files that were tested both objectively and subjectively, so I still need to figure out what is going on.
 

  Love an easy solution. Having just gone through a couple months reripping CDs with EAC I did not want to hear there was something weird going on.

Most people (at least those who voted in the poll) don't claim to hear a difference, so it may not be an issue for you. I enjoy the sound of both rippers, but usually prefer EAC. If this does not involve the actual software programs, I do admit that dBpoweramp is much more pleasant and efficient for me to use.
 
Let's hope that soon I am able to ascertain the true cause of the problems I am experiencing, so we can all move on to bigger and better things!

 

[A_Man_Eating_Duck]

I'm using a program called Exactfile to create the checksums. Before comparing the wave files you need to make sure that all Metadata has been stripped first. You can do this easily in Foobar2000 by loading in both WAV files then right click each one, properties, tools, remove tag.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Now we're getting somewhere. I used ExactFile (as well as HashMyFiles) to analyze the files before and after stripping the metadata. Here are the results:
 
--
Checksums generated by ExactFile 1.0.0.15
http://www.exactfile.com
12/31/2013 2:33:36 AM
C:\Users\Daniel\Desktop\EAC.wav
64449548 bytes
ADLER32: 91b5707e
CRC32: 528fe71e
MD2: de8314a78ea329c2adc3fec3b4ed3888
MD4: 6769032b2ab27a6391e64ec89384498a
MD5: 6ddb3d9ba58acd997c700f5d5e289c5b
SHA1: 4d45bf8a922c7c65b5486d6f1b52a743ac525195
SHA256: 77f50bd7554adc1db1f36699431efef41cbc281d28eeb05db049f05fe87296ef
SHA384: fbd91c73fefeb2dbe10aba66f08cc77e0a66127752c25de48b9255ddb1d16b0294e09fd3e8a64554654dee102a9ffcba
SHA512: f8b3a7c02428d3f487201be8cb3d839202050b671654804e0c1fd6d5623d0c39b3019a1cc95fa03bc5d803c4f1a7ddf73e91887c7fe7ff3aa3b87cdba670c6ba
RIPEMD128: cd2db6cc2e3c7fab777ad6ed36a07068
RIPEMD160: f8ae852d924d32c8f25a821ed805516dc8199e09
TIGER128: 83b6497c6d241b8320bb2c8322d1315a
TIGER160: 83b6497c6d241b8320bb2c8322d1315af4c2c74d
TIGER192: 83b6497c6d241b8320bb2c8322d1315af4c2c74d00f6e4cc
GOST: ff7cbd5754a09f1cacc812926533ee39b6b0c23927a01202788227fc1f00207c
--
Checksums generated by ExactFile 1.0.0.15
http://www.exactfile.com
12/31/2013 2:34:45 AM
C:\Users\Daniel\Desktop\DB.wav
64450192 bytes
ADLER32: 263b09a2
CRC32: 133039f9
MD2: 44548ed974c4fcf255c9583048f68260
MD4: d397f85a37567e736b8a3a4c48cd621c
MD5: 61bd5764b086e89e8d9d7a0aa9de4aa6
SHA1: 4034550b387c7cd0d4577577a3604ae566fbdbd3
SHA256: 17bba7a0061c4b7546d726c0a9346d151ce8fc81557d74377ed422db4703aa9e
SHA384: 8eb0b044aeaeb7edc944b22c1503861e6af25457026485ee9ba332a955c5d0ac57845f1084317d72d4508522cd6462a0
SHA512: f2193c97b4d3257e2275b32a5fe5ee3463608b2254e3b20f70af2209d6c71dd77321dacd13e675629599126b107934d513e313973052ff802d8381da1d98525f
RIPEMD128: df1887e066f3c47ce2d82b6b53be3087
RIPEMD160: a4f567229f0d55288e7573b48c8cc679218a45e6
TIGER128: baa7b9cfe59ca9a0b4d6bd60f97637cc
TIGER160: baa7b9cfe59ca9a0b4d6bd60f97637ccc58feb35
TIGER192: baa7b9cfe59ca9a0b4d6bd60f97637ccc58feb35df43e95b
GOST: 072d478453152e680ba790f595a928d76196b7a1a4c6da93b64a0197adcb3411
--
Checksums generated by ExactFile 1.0.0.15
http://www.exactfile.com
12/31/2013 2:37:16 AM
C:\Users\Daniel\Desktop\EAC stripped.wav
64449548 bytes
ADLER32: 91b5707e
CRC32: 528fe71e
MD2: de8314a78ea329c2adc3fec3b4ed3888
MD4: 6769032b2ab27a6391e64ec89384498a
MD5: 6ddb3d9ba58acd997c700f5d5e289c5b
SHA1: 4d45bf8a922c7c65b5486d6f1b52a743ac525195
SHA256: 77f50bd7554adc1db1f36699431efef41cbc281d28eeb05db049f05fe87296ef
SHA384: fbd91c73fefeb2dbe10aba66f08cc77e0a66127752c25de48b9255ddb1d16b0294e09fd3e8a64554654dee102a9ffcba
SHA512: f8b3a7c02428d3f487201be8cb3d839202050b671654804e0c1fd6d5623d0c39b3019a1cc95fa03bc5d803c4f1a7ddf73e91887c7fe7ff3aa3b87cdba670c6ba
RIPEMD128: cd2db6cc2e3c7fab777ad6ed36a07068
RIPEMD160: f8ae852d924d32c8f25a821ed805516dc8199e09
TIGER128: 83b6497c6d241b8320bb2c8322d1315a
TIGER160: 83b6497c6d241b8320bb2c8322d1315af4c2c74d
TIGER192: 83b6497c6d241b8320bb2c8322d1315af4c2c74d00f6e4cc
GOST: ff7cbd5754a09f1cacc812926533ee39b6b0c23927a01202788227fc1f00207c
--
Checksums generated by ExactFile 1.0.0.15
http://www.exactfile.com
12/31/2013 2:38:16 AM
C:\Users\Daniel\Desktop\DB stripped.wav
64449548 bytes
ADLER32: 91b5707e
CRC32: 528fe71e
MD2: de8314a78ea329c2adc3fec3b4ed3888
MD4: 6769032b2ab27a6391e64ec89384498a
MD5: 6ddb3d9ba58acd997c700f5d5e289c5b
SHA1: 4d45bf8a922c7c65b5486d6f1b52a743ac525195
SHA256: 77f50bd7554adc1db1f36699431efef41cbc281d28eeb05db049f05fe87296ef
SHA384: fbd91c73fefeb2dbe10aba66f08cc77e0a66127752c25de48b9255ddb1d16b0294e09fd3e8a64554654dee102a9ffcba
SHA512: f8b3a7c02428d3f487201be8cb3d839202050b671654804e0c1fd6d5623d0c39b3019a1cc95fa03bc5d803c4f1a7ddf73e91887c7fe7ff3aa3b87cdba670c6ba
RIPEMD128: cd2db6cc2e3c7fab777ad6ed36a07068
RIPEMD160: f8ae852d924d32c8f25a821ed805516dc8199e09
TIGER128: 83b6497c6d241b8320bb2c8322d1315a
TIGER160: 83b6497c6d241b8320bb2c8322d1315af4c2c74d
TIGER192: 83b6497c6d241b8320bb2c8322d1315af4c2c74d00f6e4cc
GOST: ff7cbd5754a09f1cacc812926533ee39b6b0c23927a01202788227fc1f00207c
--
 
As you implied, they only match after stripping the metadata. This is highly relevant, because the metadata is the only thing I can think of that would be different in Wave files that are bit identical.
 
According to the checksums, Exact Audio Copy does not add any metadata, while dBpoweramp does. (I noticed this in the past in Windows Explorer.)
 
Could this be what is affecting playback? Perhaps I will do more listening tests to compare the default files and ones that have the metadata stripped.

 

[A_Man_Eating_Duck]

Metadata shouldn't be the cause of it. The only thing that could change the sound drastically is soundcheck being enabled. DBPoweramp doesn't add soundcheck metadata and you don't have it enabled on your iPod anyhow.
 
I just had a quick check in my DBPoweramp rips and there is nothing that would cause the sound to be altered on playback.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Update as of 1/1/2014:
 
What an embarrassing revelation. After more listening tests, I have discovered that I was wrong.
 
The differences I thought I heard were merely my overactive imagination. You could say that I was analyzing little details so closely that I began hearing things that weren't there. Ironically, it was only when I listened more casually that I saw the error of my ways. I should have known this all along, since the objective data already told me the truth.
 
I hereby rescind my mistaken assertion and formally apologize for any confusion caused by this thread.
 
My personal choice will now be dBpoweramp, due to its higher ripping speed and ease of use. Exact Audio Copy will be used as a backup when need be. Both are excellent programs nonetheless.
 
On a more positive note, at least now I (and indeed, all of us) can move on to better things...like gear that actually will drastically improve the sound.

 

[hogger129]

  Update as of 1/1/2014:
 
What an embarrassing revelation. After more listening tests, I have discovered that I was wrong.
 
The differences I thought I heard were merely my overactive imagination. You could say that I was analyzing little details so closely that I began hearing things that weren't there. Ironically, it was only when I listened more casually that I saw the error of my ways. I should have known this all along, since the objective data already told me the truth.
 
I hereby rescind my mistaken assertion and formally apologize for any confusion caused by this thread.
 
My personal choice will now be dBpoweramp, due to its higher ripping speed and ease of use. Exact Audio Copy will be used as a backup when need be. Both are excellent programs nonetheless.
 
On a more positive note, at least now I (and indeed, all of us) can move on to better things...like gear that actually will drastically improve the sound.

 
Yeah it's still good to keep EAC around for discs that dBp might fail on.  Glad you found the cause of the issue.

 

[A_Man_Eating_Duck]

  Update as of 1/1/2014:
 
What an embarrassing revelation. After more listening tests, I have discovered that I was wrong.
 
The differences I thought I heard were merely my overactive imagination. You could say that I was analyzing little details so closely that I began hearing things that weren't there. Ironically, it was only when I listened more casually that I saw the error of my ways. I should have known this all along, since the objective data already told me the truth.
 
I hereby rescind my mistaken assertion and formally apologize for any confusion caused by this thread.
 
My personal choice will now be dBpoweramp, due to its higher ripping speed and ease of use. Exact Audio Copy will be used as a backup when need be. Both are excellent programs nonetheless.
 
On a more positive note, at least now I (and indeed, all of us) can move on to better things...like gear that actually will drastically improve the sound.

Thanks for the update, that should put this issue to bed for a few people who are reading along as well. 

 

[Anton90125]

I can hear a distinct difference despite both rips saying they were accurate rips.  I used TS121 to hold the files and 2 Sqeezeboxes plugged into a cyrus DAC X. 1 SB read the EAC filer while the other read the DbPowerAmp. The DbPoweramp sounded duller, background detail was messy (best way I can describe it). The base was boomy and uncontrolled. Switching the inputs allowed quick comparisons between files. I also compared them to the CD played via my Sony SCD 777ES played through the same DAC X. Having multiple inputs made this comparison easy. The EAC sounded virtually identical to the CD - possibly the EAC sounded slightly better ??
 
To make sure there wasn't anything funny with the Squeezeboxes and the digital cable (both QED digital coax). I got the players to play the opposite files. The differences moved with the files been played. It was fun and games trying to control the SB's with a single remote.
 
I wasn't so happy though as I expected them to sound the same and I had to re-rip 90+ CD again with EAC. 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I can hear a distinct difference despite both rips saying they were accurate rips.  I used TS121 to hold the files and 2 Sqeezeboxes plugged into a cyrus DAC X. 1 SB read the EAC filer while the other read the DbPowerAmp. The DbPoweramp sounded duller, background detail was messy (best way I can describe it). The base was boomy and uncontrolled. Switching the inputs allowed quick comparisons between files. I also compared them to the CD played via my Sony SCD 777ES played through the same DAC X. Having multiple inputs made this comparison easy. The EAC sounded virtually identical to the CD - possibly the EAC sounded slightly better ??
 
To make sure there wasn't anything funny with the Squeezeboxes and the digital cable (both QED digital coax). I got the players to play the opposite files. The differences moved with the files been played. It was fun and games trying to control the SB's with a single remote.
 
I wasn't so happy though as I expected them to sound the same and I had to re-rip 90+ CD again with EAC. 

 
Resurrecting this embarrassing old thread, I see?
 
You should have compared with foobar2000's ABX Comparator to verify whether you were actually hearing a difference.
 
(If the files are identical, then it's definitely just your imagination.)

 

[A_Man_Eating_Duck]

The first thing to check is if the files are indeed bit identical. If you use Foobar2000 you can use the bitcompare plugin to see if there is any difference in the file (install plugin, add both files to the playlist, select both right click > utils > bit compare). If it reports no difference then it could be a replaygain tag in one of the files that's causing the difference on playback.

 

[Anton90125]

I am simply going to rip everything with EAC, it may be slow but it gives me acceptable results. Life is too short to get into debates. I simply ripped s few (90 CDs) with DbPoweramp and didn't like the result. I re ripped them with EAC and I did like the results.
I reported my findings. That it now. If you don't want people resurrecting this then why not close the thread ?  

 

[A_Man_Eating_Duck]

It sounds like you have accidentally enabled a DSP in DBPoweramp when you have ripped your cds.

I've shown HERE that there is absolutely no difference between EAC and DBPoweramp when ripping a clean disc. If you normalize or have a DSP enabled when ripping a disc this would cause a difference in sound and also a change in checksum.

Your squeezebox does honor replaygain tags so that could be another cause of the difference in the files.

 

[wtaylorbasil]

It sounds like you have accidentally enabled a DSP in DBPoweramp when you have ripped your cds.

I've shown HERE that there is absolutely no difference between EAC and DBPoweramp when ripping a clean disc. If you normalize or have a DSP enabled when ripping a disc this would cause a difference in sound and also a change in checksum.

Your squeezebox does honor replaygain tags so that could be another cause of the difference in the files.

It appears that there are multitudes of settings on each software. If the CD is a clean one I agree the output from each will be the same. However what if the CD (track) is not clean, will one try to do a multiple re-rip and others not? This was my question in another thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/775215/cd-ripping-times-vary-greatly-why).
It looks as if dBpoweramp has repeatedly tried to re-rip till a satisfactory outcome. So what settings should I have to revisit and change so all will be ripping with the same criteria?

 

[A_Man_Eating_Duck]

I think it's best to keep your questions in the original thread.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/775215/cd-ripping-times-vary-greatly-why

 

[hogger129]

When I A/B'ed them with my FiiO X3 with Audio Technica ATH-M50 headphones, I didn't hear a difference between the same CD ripped to FLAC 1.3.1 by EAC and dBpoweramp.  At least for me, the issue has been laid to rest as I hear no difference.  Both were verified accurate and as far as I have read, this is exactly the result I should come up with.