DDC - Digital USB interfaces - Xmos or Amanero Combo384 based - Raspberry Pi - HifiBerry DAC+ Pro - reviews, comparison, modifications and USB-Audio in general

[hgpsemaj]

SONORE audiobyte USB US$693.72 each

 
http://www.yoycart.com/Product/522226460134/

 

[hgpsemaj]

Soekris R2R DAC dam1021 Version 3.0
 
The latest version on the left,

 

 
http://soekris.com/products/audio-products/dam1021.html

 

[ginetto61]

I think you 'forgot' to mention the currently available Singxer F-1 solution. The best USB DDC I have heard by miles ...

 
Hi ! sorry to jump in.   It looks very well built indeed.   Are you aware of a web site of the brand ?
 
How do you power it ?   i mean ... directly from the pc using the usb bus power or do you use a special usb power supply ?
 

You can follow the thread I've started here:   

Link is missing

Thanks a lot !
regards,  gino

 

[hgpsemaj]

Is it the one?
 
https://world.taobao.com/item/528898172401.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.OQ4eFR#detail

 

[ginetto61]

Hi ! i think it is this one
 
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/f-1-xmos-usb-digital-interface-board-xu208-chip-high-end-u8-upgraded-version.html

 

[rb2013]

   
Did not see your PS initially.
 
 
A standalone application closer to a conventional PC is Rune Audio which pulls in the audio files without the need for another PC other than the file server itself.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/795895/a-70-bit-perfect-audio-player
 
I use LMS with the RPi and it is a little different but that is a software choice rather than a RPi specific, that probably made the RPi sound more complicated than it was.
 
I2S makes sense only if one is able to connect the RPi directly to the DAC on the DAC motherboard, going thru I2S converters nullifies some of the benefits.
 
The RPi2 and above will play 384kHz tracks without dropouts, RPi2 is a 900MHz 4core ARM with 1Gb of memory
RPi3 is 1.2GHz
 
Some numbers on my RPi2 Picoreplayer on the RPi:
DSD128 as DoP (equivalent to 384kHz PCM): Approx 20% of 1CPU core, 0.20/4 = 5% busy overall (load average: 0.20)
Track is one of the Native DSD tracks justlisten_JL001_JL001+stereo_05_Mahler1_finale_session_BFO_DSD128_2ch128.dff
 
PCM 352kHz : load average: Approx 11% of 1CPU core,  0.11/4 = 2.75% busy overall (load average: 0.11)
Track is from 2L Krambupolka 2L-068 stereo-DXD 01 15

Thanks for the great info - Well it appears these latest versions have the processing power.  So much going on now with computer audio - from renders, streamers, USB, no the RPi stuff - hard to stay near the curve - let alone ahead of it.
 
I guess this is very flexible in terms of set-up - I read this article in 'What Hi-Fi' and had a different impression - as always you are at the cutting edge!

 

[rb2013]

   
Hi ! sorry to jump in.   It looks very well built indeed.   Are you aware of a web site of the brand ?
 
How do you power it ?   i mean ... directly from the pc using the usb bus power or do you use a special usb power supply ?
 
Link is missing

Thanks a lot !
regards,  gino

Sorry here is the thread link (using my darn tablet last night - it's very hard to cut and paste to a Headfi post):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
 
The Singxer F-1 is USB powered (see my thread for details on my set-up), just to say using a W4S Recovery with LPS external power, and a bunch of other enhancements.
 
It is by far the best sound I have ever heard in a music system I've owned - rivaling my old $30K analog set-up.  Some things it's way better on, and a few that great analog is slightly better at.  But overall I'd say just killer good.  The F-1 (now fully burnt in) is light years ahead of all other DDC's I've owned (including the PUC2 Lite, Hydra Z, modded Breeze Du-U8, DXIO Pro3a, Gustard U12, etc...).
 
The Singxer X-1 is very, very good as well.  The SU-1 will be launched in May:
Here is the Taobao website:
https://world.taobao.com/item/528898172401.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.kq275g#detail

 

[ginetto61]

Sorry here is the thread link (using my darn tablet last night - it's very hard to cut and paste to a Headfi post):
http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived
 
The Singxer F-1 is USB powered (see my thread for details on my set-up), just to say using a W4S Recovery with LPS external power, and a bunch of other enhancements.
It is by far the best sound I have ever heard in a music system I've owned - rivaling my old $30K analog set-up.  Some things it's way better on, and a few that great analog is slightly better at.  But overall I'd say just killer good.  The F-1 (now fully burnt in) is light years ahead of all other DDC's I've owned (including the PUC2 Lite, Hydra Z, modded Breeze Du-U8, DXIO Pro3a, Gustard U12, etc...).
The Singxer X-1 is very, very good as well.  The SU-1 will be launched in May:
Here is the Taobao website:
https://world.taobao.com/item/528898172401.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.kq275g#detail

 
Hi and thanks again !  no more question.  I understand it is really something special.
also IMHO a good analog rig is the reference.  With good analog it is easier to get music and not only sounds.
And also the price is very right. 
I will stop asking and start reading ... sorry again.
Kind regards,  gino

 

[prot]

  Hi ! i think it is this one
 
http://www.shenzhenaudio.com/f-1-xmos-usb-digital-interface-board-xu208-chip-high-end-u8-upgraded-version.html

 
Here's the short resume on the so called 'new gen' ddcs.
All are based on a (somewhat) newer and more powerful xmos chip... all sold (apparently) by these guys http://singxer.com/pr.jsp ... all using the somewhat shady kind of drivers that you have to dload from some chinese site.

the F1 you linked is the bare board.  You have to add a case and power (usb or other) ... and if you want any output other than the std coax spdif, you need to diy it. About $180+diy costs.
 
the SU1 linked above is the fullbox device. Presumably with the same (or similar) f1 board inside the nice case ... and all the usual extras: trafo power, aes/bnc/i2s outputs, clock output, etc.. About $300
 
there are a few lesser devices (X1 & Q1 iirc) which are cheaper & simpler bare boards ... ~$100 or less.  May be a good start but they don't look as good as f1 ... e.g. little or no isolation between the 'dirty' usb input side (the xmos side) and the 'clean' output side (the side with clocks) ... no extra fpga on the 'clean' side .. cheaper clocks ... etc...
 
Which one is best for you?
Unfortunately (and in spite of the amazing amount of SPAMalot/FUDalot/HYPEalot posts), nobody can really say that.  The difference made by any DDC depends on 3 main factors: the quality of your power, of your digital source and of your Dac. And the SQ diffs with a ddc could be anywhere between non-audible and my-wife-heard-it-too .
In my setup (filtered power + laptop + minimaxplus) the old-gen ddcs were between non-audible & barely-audible ... only the puc2 is slightly above that range.

 

[ginetto61]

  Here's the short resume on the so called 'new gen' ddcs.
All are based on a (somewhat) newer and more powerful xmos chip... all sold (apparently) by these guys http://singxer.com/pr.jsp ... all using the somewhat shady kind of drivers that you have to dload from some chinese site.
the F1 you linked is the bare board.  You have to add a case and power (usb or other) ... and if you want any output other than the std coax spdif, you need to diy it. About $180+diy costs.
the SU1 linked above is the fullbox device. Presumably with the same (or similar) f1 board inside the nice case ... and all the usual extras: trafo power, aes/bnc/i2s outputs, clock output, etc.. About $300
there are a few lesser devices (X1 & Q1 iirc) which are cheaper & simpler bare boards ... ~$100 or less.  May be a good start but they don't look as good as f1 ... e.g. little or no isolation between the 'dirty' usb input side (the xmos side) and the 'clean' output side (the side with clocks) ... no extra fpga on the 'clean' side .. cheaper clocks ... etc...
Which one is best for you?
Unfortunately (and in spite of the amazing amount of SPAMalot/FUDalot/HYPEalot posts), nobody can really say that.  The difference made by any DDC depends on 3 main factors: the quality of your power, of your digital source and of your Dac. And the SQ diffs with a ddc could be anywhere between non-audible and my-wife-heard-it-too .
In my setup (filtered power + laptop + minimaxplus) the old-gen ddcs were between non-audible & barely-audible ... only the puc2 is slightly above that range.

 
As i said i am interested to wait and see the SU1 and its construction.  DIY is not an option for me.  I have no skills.
Clearly source and dac are still important but this one is a very fundamental link in the chain ... i am quite sure of this.
As i dac now i have an Apogee Rosetta 200 at hand.  Pc many ... both Win 7 and one Mac Mini.
I think that the F1 should have drivers at least for one of the two OS.
Very beautiful board indeed ... neat. It speaks quality
 

 
Thanks a lot again,  gino 

 

[rb2013]

   
Hi and thanks again !  no more question.  I understand it is really something special.
also IMHO a good analog rig is the reference.  With good analog it is easier to get music and not only sounds.
And also the price is very right. 
I will stop asking and start reading ... sorry again.
Kind regards,  gino

You are correct - that really great analog projects a more realistic image, has greater dynamics - both micro and macro, and generally a more natural richer tone.  But that comes at cost - background noise (LP surface noise), now the very finest cartridges like the DynaVector XV-1S and Benz Ebony LP (both of which I had) use a stylus shape to min this.  But it's still there.  Certainly not the ink black background of a well fed F-1.  What shocks me is how close the F-1 comes to bringing those other great attributes of sota analog from a digital source.  Best of both worlds - for a small fraction of the cost.  And of course long playlists!
 
Cheers!

 

[rb2013]

   
Here's the short resume on the so called 'new gen' ddcs.
All are based on a (somewhat) newer and more powerful xmos chip... all sold (apparently) by these guys http://singxer.com/pr.jsp ... all using the somewhat shady kind of drivers that you have to dload from some chinese site.

the F1 you linked is the bare board.  You have to add a case and power (usb or other) ... and if you want any output other than the std coax spdif, you need to diy it. About $180+diy costs.
 
the SU1 linked above is the fullbox device. Presumably with the same (or similar) f1 board inside the nice case ... and all the usual extras: trafo power, aes/bnc/i2s outputs, clock output, etc.. About $300
 
there are a few lesser devices (X1 & Q1 iirc) which are cheaper & simpler bare boards ... ~$100 or less.  May be a good start but they don't look as good as f1 ... e.g. little or no isolation between the 'dirty' usb input side (the xmos side) and the 'clean' output side (the side with clocks) ... no extra fpga on the 'clean' side .. cheaper clocks ... etc...
 
Which one is best for you?
Unfortunately (and in spite of the amazing amount of SPAMalot/FUDalot/HYPEalot posts), nobody can really say that.  The difference made by any DDC depends on 3 main factors: the quality of your power, of your digital source and of your Dac. And the SQ diffs with a ddc could be anywhere between non-audible and my-wife-heard-it-too .
In my setup (filtered power + laptop + minimaxplus) the old-gen ddcs were between non-audible & barely-audible ... only the puc2 is slightly above that range.

Well yes it needs drivers- so?  And it is plug and play for spdif - a i2s would require a cable attached.  I bought a really nice aluminum split case for $9 on Ebay.
 
And yes for best performance the F-1 does require clean well regulated power - but so?  You can get a TeraDak X1/X2 linear power supply for like $80 and it comes with a USB separate power feed cable.  Pretty amazing performance for around $250 total.  Plug and play - easy to load XMOS drivers and then great music!
 
PS and the XU208 X-1 is $69 includes ALL NDK SD ultra low noise clocks to boot!  I have one playing right now - after the F-1 the best DDC I have heard yet.  So with a TeraDak X1 - around $150 bucks!
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/X-1-XMOS-USB-Digital-Interface-Module/111960651117?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D36469%26meid%3D4a313c26b6014b0b9356dd88f3009e8e%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D111961717820

 

[wakka992]

  the F1 you linked is the bare board.  You have to add a case and power (usb or other) ... and if you want any output other than the std coax spdif, you need to diy it. About $180+diy costs.
 

 
I'm considering the F1 board as I only need S/pdif output. Do you know of any case that will adapt to this board? What about clean external power?
Thanks for your help, I'm new to DDC.

 

[rb2013]

   
I'm considering the F1 board as I only need S/pdif output. Do you know of any case that will adapt to this board? What about clean external power?
Thanks for your help, I'm new to DDC.

Sure - not to hijack this thread (I'm really interested in the RPi stuff - thanks Alex for adding that).  But see my XU208 thread for the details - a case is around $9.  I have few on their way to me. - So will report the easiest mounting one.  Right now just using a left over case from a past project (again see my thread).
 
The SQ is simply stunning!

 

[prot]

Looks like many are a bit confused about those RPI devices that are built & discussed in this thread.
Basically, the idea is to put a RaspberryPi board into your Dac .. directly linked to the Dac chip via i2s. 
What you get is the equivalent of devices like Auralic Altair, Marantz NA-11S1 and many other mega $$$ 'audiophile wonders'.

How-to:

1. You connect a RPi board to your Dac chip via I2S (the hard part, many informative posts above).
2. You install an 'audiophile OS' like Volumio, RuneAudio, Daphile, Archphile, piCorePlayer, Voyage ... or anything from this huge list.  And no worries, you usually get an image file that you simply put on an SD and are good to go.  Some even sell fully configured SDs for like $30...stick it into the RPi and you're good to go.   Everything is already audio-optimized for you .. with nice webbrowser interfaces to control all settings, play music, etc.
3. Most distros use the MPD player which can be remote-controlled from pretty much any device on your couch: ipod/iphone, ipad, android phones/tablets, windows phones/tablets/pc-s, etc.  Playlists, album art, volume control - all at your fingers, on the couch . Most of the clients are mature already and work just as well as the ones coming with any similar wow-audiophile devices (according to many, Auralic actually uses slightly changed mpd/mpad software). As an mpd alternate, picoreplayer is a nice squeezbox compatible player with similar features.. and many other players if you wanna experiment.
4. The mpd/pico players will play music the music from a HDD connected to the RPi or from any music server, dlna device, windows pc, tablet/phone connected via network cable or wifi/bluetooth.  Some distros also allow you to stream music from Tidal/Spotify/etc, stream radio, podcasts or whatever other music sources.

With some extra effort, you can also do multi-room setups, room-correction & other DSP, use HQPlayer & DSD conversion,  etc.  Basically anything that you ever read about or wanted from a digital-audio setup!  As a bonus, you can even use that RPi as a video player .. e.g. with xbmc/kodi and a remote/mouse like Mele.

(potential) Issues:

•  you need some diy skills. Or just ask a friend.

Advantages:

• *huge* clutter improvemets: no PC, no DDC, no expensive power/usb cables, no LPSes. Just a single music-box to rule them all
• if you care about clean power, use a $25 LiPo bettery for the RPi ... cleaner power than most $$$ LPSes.  Or a $99 ifi purifier which (at least specswise) is better than any LPS.
• no PC also means no Windows, no updates, no viruses, etc.
• The RPi starts in just a few seconds .. even faster than some DACs .. and consumes almost nothing (just a few watts for standby or audiplay).
• no USB = no worries about the bytes&noises .. and no crazy $2000 USB chains like ppang card + jitterbug + wyrd + intona + regen + god knows how many cables & LPSes :eek: .
• you can keep the Dac you already have and like.
• no drivers to hunt, install, configure, etc.  All you need comes with the OS.
• the BOM is between $50 - $300, depending how much power/signal filtering you want between the RPi board and the Dac.  For that money you get a device as good and confy as those $2000+  Auralics.  And if your diy skills are as good as b0bb's or abartels' you'll prolly get even better SQ.

For help & details you can always ask the diy experts around here .. people who already built & tested such setups and are enthusiastically recomending them for amazing SQ: @b0bb
, @hgpsemaj
, @abartels
.
Just forget your USB worries, headaches, $1000 cables and devices without end and WELCOME to the future world of easy and fun audio!
Also forget your always-empty wallet cause this RPi stuff is more than decently priced and totally affordable for anyone!

P.S.
And you'll also be much better if you ignore various mr. FUDalots and dubious salesmen who neither understand nor ever saw such rpi+i2s+dac setups.