[Gavin C4]

In order to satisfy my desire to know more about dCS DACs and how they perform. I went to demo the dCS Bartok and Rossini. The conclusion is the Rossini is a tier above of the Bartok. It has much better lower end extension and punch, vocals are more texture and have a lot of meat and more weight on the Rossini and better sense of space. In direct comparison, the Bartok's vocals sounded more transparent and slightly leaner than the Rossini, the bass has slightly less punch, the entire stage is slightly flatter than the Rossini.

But I really have to stress that the difference is not Day or night, it requires multiple A / B switching to tell the difference. At this level, detail retrieval is already top-notch. In a particular situation, those who like to listen mostly to instruments and wanted more transparency may consider the Bartok at a lower cost and wait for v2.0 firmware update. dCS will definitely drop the software update on Bartok if more people are using it in the headphone community. At the end of the day, Bartok alone is already in a league of its own compared to other DACs on the market that I have heard.

 

[Jon773]

In order to satisfy my desire to know more about dCS DACs and how they perform. I went to demo the dCS Bartok and Rossini. The conclusion is the Rossini is a tier above of the Bartok. It has much better lower end extension and punch, vocals are more texture and have a lot of meat and more weight on the Rossini and better sense of space. In direct comparison, the Bartok's vocals sounded more transparent and slightly leaner than the Rossini, the bass has slightly less punch, the entire stage is slightly flatter than the Rossini.

But I really have to stress that the difference is not Day or night, it requires multiple A / B switching to tell the difference. At this level, detail retrieval is already top-notch. In a particular situation, those who like to listen mostly to instruments and wanted more transparency may consider the Bartok at a lower cost and wait for v2.0 firmware update. dCS will definitely drop the software update on Bartok if more people are using it in the headphone community. At the end of the day, Bartok alone is already in a league of its own compared to other DACs on the market that I have heard.

The Rossini DAC is pretty much twice the price of the Bartok DAC... £19.5k vs £11.5k.... Of course its going to be better. The Vivaldi is better than both of them.

In terms of performance its something like:

Bartok
Bartok + Rossini Clock
Rossini
Rossini + Rossini Clock
Vivaldi
Vivaldi + Vivaldi Clock

and that's before you start looking into the other components in the stacks...

 

[Jon773]

Bad news for anyone wanting a Bartok... The price has recently shot up

Bartok £11.5k
Bartok with HA £14.5k

 

[Acemcl]

Is anyone using the bartok with an external headphone amplifier? during my demo, the sound was def better with an external headphone amp ( benchmark hpa-4)

 

[CreditingKarma]

Is anyone using the bartok with an external headphone amplifier? during my demo, the sound was def better with an external headphone amp ( benchmark hpa-4)

Yes I purchased the dac only model and pair it with the XIAUDIO FORMULA S and POWERMAN with my Abyss also the liquid platinum. The Abyss sounds better to my ears with the Formula S than the bartoks amp. My clears sounded pretty great with the Bartok amp when I had the full version on loan for audition.

 

[Jon773]

Is anyone using the bartok with an external headphone amplifier? during my demo, the sound was def better with an external headphone amp ( benchmark hpa-4)

How long did you demo it for?

I have read some posts on other forums saying that there was some improvement from using the HPA4.

My friend has an HPA4 and will hopefully bring it over to mine sometime so we can A/B test and compare.

I spent last night doing lengthy (for me) comparison on my setup with and without an AQ Niagara + Storm cable.

Its on 30day money back, so it needed to be a decent improvement...

Tracks:

Gregory Porter - Mister Holland
Daft Punk - Lose yourself to dance
Sturgill Simpson - Welcome to earth
The XX - Say something loving
Gorillaz - Feel Good Inc
Prophets of Rage - Hands Up

The AQ gear has been settling in for 4 days and I have been listening to my test tracks during this time. For my testing I narrowed it down to the above 6 tracks.

Played all of the with the AQ, took it out played them all again put it back in and played them all again.

Well its quite noticeable the difference. The music is richer and deeper. Sounds more alive to me. Really noticed taking it out and the sound seems a little flat in comparison.

Its not night and day but its another step forward and worth having in my case.

Similar level of improvement to adding the clock.

 

[Acemcl]

I demoed it over two diff listening sessions each of which were about 90 mins. I had three headphones ( utopia’s, empyrean and stellia) and I came away with the impression that adding the hpa4 definitely made a difference to the low end. Bass response seemed to be better.

I’m now seriously thinking of getting a dedicated amp, just have to figure out which one.

How long did you demo it for?

I have read some posts on other forums saying that there was some improvement from using the HPA4.

My friend has an HPA4 and will hopefully bring it over to mine sometime so we can A/B test and compare.

I spent last night doing lengthy (for me) comparison on my setup with and without an AQ Niagara + Storm cable.

Its on 30day money back, so it needed to be a decent improvement...

Tracks:

Gregory Porter - Mister Holland
Daft Punk - Lose yourself to dance
Sturgill Simpson - Welcome to earth
The XX - Say something loving
Gorillaz - Feel Good Inc
Prophets of Rage - Hands Up

The AQ gear has been settling in for 4 days and I have been listening to my test tracks during this time. For my testing I narrowed it down to the above 6 tracks.

Played all of the with the AQ, took it out played them all again put it back in and played them all again.

Well its quite noticeable the difference. The music is richer and deeper. Sounds more alive to me. Really noticed taking it out and the sound seems a little flat in comparison.

Its not night and day but its another step forward and worth having in my case.

Similar level of improvement to adding the clock.

 

[Gavin C4]

Was originally planning to get the Bartok with headphone amp version. I thought with the Bartok headphone amp, then I could have another amp to compare with my current amps. However, after demoing the Rossini and clock, then I started to think, if I am not really going to use the headphone amp on the Bartok most of the time, then why not add a little to the budget and get the Rossini? So I ended up with the Rossini... Remember some of you said in an earlier post that we can get the Clock later for an upgrade. Yes, that is true, the Rossini impressed me so much that the clock upgrade came earlier than expected.

Before the DAC upgrade, I always thought that the bass on the Utopia is fast and neutral (light). And I always wanted to get another pair of headphones with slightly more bass. However, with Rossini, the quality of the bass on Utopia improved significantly. The bass really felt lifelike, it has much more density and weight to it. It is not about quantity and quality anymore, it is just lifelike. The same thing applies to the vocals. Some may confuse it with warmth in the vocals or thicker mids, but it is not that simple. Vocals remain very neutral, but it has much more density to it.

If Bartok had the 2.0 firmware, it might be a closer comparison. Rossini is still better in terms of the density of the notes. Vocals and bass slightly better weight to them and sounded slightly more analog while not sacrifice anything compared to Bartok.

 

[Acemcl]

How do you like the Luxman P750u? i've been going back and forth between that and the Benchmark to pair with my incoming Bartok

 

[Jon773]

Nice setup. Those 3 boxes are around £30k, so quite a bit more than the Bartok with HA. I would also be interested in how the Luxman sounds as well; have you had an opportunity to compare to something like the HPA4?

Oh and there is no news on any new firmware for the Bartok; I don't think its on the near term horizon unfortunately.

 

[SuperBurrito]

Was originally planning to get the Bartok with headphone amp version.

Wow, that is an incredible setup. I too am looking forward to your impressions of the Luxman. Also, it is very interesting to hear about the changes in the Utopia. I have them and agree with your original sentiments about them being a bit light on bass when partnered with certain equipment.

 

[Gavin C4]

How do you like the Luxman P750u? i've been going back and forth between that and the Benchmark to pair with my incoming Bartok

Nice setup. Those 3 boxes are around £30k, so quite a bit more than the Bartok with HA. I would also be interested in how the Luxman sounds as well; have you had an opportunity to compare to something like the HPA4?

Oh and there is no news on any new firmware for the Bartok; I don't think its on the near term horizon unfortunately.

Wow, that is an incredible setup. I too am looking forward to your impressions of the Luxman. Also, it is very interesting to hear about the changes in the Utopia. I have them and agree with your original sentiments about them being a bit light on bass when partnered with certain equipment.

My Previous setup is the Schiit Mj2/ Gumby A1 stack. And upgraded to Rossini w/ Clock and Luxman P750U.

I have both setup in house for a while before I sold the Schiit Stack.

Demoed the Bartok and Rossini with my pair of Utopia

Bartok w/ AMP vs P750u
In short


Bartok DAC only with P750U or a great AMP according to taste

Bartok w/AMP for ultimate transparency and neutral presentation (Best one box Simple solution witoutvneed for interconects )


The AMP with the Bartok is really good in performance. After side by side comparison with Luxman. I can safely say that both of them have similar depth and width of the stage. But the sound signature is different.

Bartok AMP is more analytical, it scales really high in terms of technicality. Position of the vocals is 1 step further compared to the P750u.
The Bartok amp might be a bit clean or too neutral. While the P750u is on the slightly analoge side of neutral. It really depends on the taste of music. Bartok AMP have a more neutral and faster bass response compared to P750U. It is very balance and neutral across the entire spectrum. While P750U does smooth a bit of the high frequency and make the presentation more euphonic.

Pairing the Bartok with Utopia is like pairing a analytical amp with an transparent headphone. It makes the presentation a bit too sterile for my taste. But if you are aiming for ultimate transparency and detail retrieval, Bartok and Utopia is about the best you can get.



Utopia: P750u vs Mjolnir 2

P750u with the Utopia really opens up the stage compared to the Mjolnir 2. It is like sitting at the 4-6 row in the concert hall, compared to sitting on the 1st row (Mjolnir 2). Vocals are more concentrated and solid with the Luxman. I actually started to notice that the Mjolnir 2's presentation a bit strange (the vocals is inside my head and in my face) when I bought the THX 789 and a few portable players and tested my headphone on those.

In terms of tonality, Vocals on the Mjolnir 2 is slightly warmer (Amperex tubes). Vocals are closer to my face on the Mj2. Bass slam is similar but Mj2 have a slight edge over the P750u because of the slightly warmer signature, it has the initial slam but really lack the texture and virbration after wards. Bass on the Luxman is neutral but more detail and texture, generally much higher quality of bass on Luxman.

In terms of detail, the Luxman edges over the Mj2. The main reason due to class A solid-state implementation. The Mj2 would smooth out some of the detail, especially some micro aspects and in the high frequencys and hihat instruments. What makes the Luxman so good is that does help to remove the metalic sound of the utopia but does it in a way that it does not sacrifice any detail. Instruments are further apart and depth is better on the Luxman. There are much more blank space between each instruments with the luxman.

Sorry, I never auditioned the HPA 4. But I have a THX 789 for comparison with P750u.
The THX 789 is a simplified amp. Generally less depth, less width, less texture. It is too clean in sound. It only presents the initial tone for the entire music. For example, the bass it presents the initial hit clearly and perfectly, but unable to presents the remaining texture and decay well enough. Similar to the vocals and other instruments. You would generally missed out a lot of texture on the THX789 as it over simplified the music.

 

[Articnoise]

Was originally planning to get the Bartok with headphone amp version. I thought with the Bartok headphone amp, then I could have another amp to compare with my current amps. However, after demoing the Rossini and clock, then I started to think, if I am not really going to use the headphone amp on the Bartok most of the time, then why not add a little to the budget and get the Rossini? So I ended up with the Rossini... Remember some of you said in an earlier post that we can get the Clock later for an upgrade. Yes, that is true, the Rossini impressed me so much that the clock upgrade came earlier than expected.

Before the DAC upgrade, I always thought that the bass on the Utopia is fast and neutral (light). And I always wanted to get another pair of headphones with slightly more bass. However, with Rossini, the quality of the bass on Utopia improved significantly. The bass really felt lifelike, it has much more density and weight to it. It is not about quantity and quality anymore, it is just lifelike. The same thing applies to the vocals. Some may confuse it with warmth in the vocals or thicker mids, but it is not that simple. Vocals remain very neutral, but it has much more density to it.

If Bartok had the 2.0 firmware, it might be a closer comparison. Rossini is still better in terms of the density of the notes. Vocals and bass slightly better weight to them and sounded slightly more analog while not sacrifice anything compared to Bartok.

That I won’t call an upgrade, it's rather a brand new music system . Now you only need to get a pair of good planar headphones .

 

[Acemcl]

My bartok has finally arrived at the dealer .... a mere 8 weeks after I placed the order. I should be able to get my hands on it by wednesday I think. This is by far the longest I have ever waited for a component but I’m hoping that this will be it ( at least for a while). In this time I’ve also picked up a used viva audio egoista 845 and Will pair it with the bartok. has anyone paired a tube amp with the bartok?

 

[Frankie D]

My bartok has finally arrived at the dealer .... a mere 8 weeks after I placed the order. I should be able to get my hands on it by wednesday I think. This is by far the longest I have ever waited for a component but I’m hoping that this will be it ( at least for a while). In this time I’ve also picked up a used viva audio egoista 845 and Will pair it with the bartok. has anyone paired a tube amp with the bartok?

Wow! That should sound good. I use Viva electronics to drive my 2 Channel Home System. Great stuff.