[alxw0w]

BACCH-SP Grand audition ongoing all day ... more to follow

I hope that you will try it on both headphones and speakers (especially speakers as it's my main future target, or at least could be)

 

[simorag]

BACCH-SP Grand audition ongoing all day ... more to follow

After following the BACCH-SP from its inception a few years ago, finally I was able to audition it properly. It took me to fly to Stockholm, but it was worth it, as I had the system at my disposal for an entire day, thanks to the outstanding kindness and professionalism of the dealer (Audio Concept).

My ultimate goal was to assess the BACCH-SP (BSP in the following) for headphones use, as a system for transcending (some of) the inherent limitations of headphones listening when it comes to spatial information presentation. In my wild dreams, I was aiming to an experience where the headphones disappear, and the sound field is mostly in front of you, or, even better, portrayed in a realistic 3D space as the BSP is designed to do with loudspeakers.

The first part of the setup is the creation of the personalized filter (HRTF), that requires loudspeakers to generate a frequency sweep that is received by a set of dedicated earplugs with integrated microphones that you must wear during the process. With the support of my host, this was a quick and easy step.

We repeated the process twice: one for a profile to be used with loudspeakers, and a second one for headphones.

Next came a listening session with the 2-channel setup, which I conducted both to establish a baseline of the main intent of the system, and because I also use loudspeakers as a secondary listening mode. And what a setup it was! The BACCH-SP Grand (50kEuro retail) acted as streamer, DAC and “Audio Purifier”, feeding a pair of Omega Audio Concepts DNA monos with TOTL Omega cabling and power supplies, which were driving the 80k Alsyvox Tintoretto loudspeakers.

I had my trusted playlist with me, entirely acoustic music, mainly made out of classical (many sub-genres), some and jazz and vocals tracks.

Long story short, the effect of the BSP in the 2-channel setup was very convincing.

The ‘normal’ performance of the system was already impressive, but when the BSP was on literally everything improved. The most obvious improvement was that the musicians took place in a much more layered and structured soundscape, filling the room in a very corporeal fashion. The absolute size of the stage was not necessarily affected much (all this is very dependent on the recording), but the organization and the sense of physical air between the musicians were on an entire new level of realism.

Switching back from BSP to bypass mode was then kind of disappointing, as everything seemed flat and crammed between the loudspeakers in direct comparison. Orchestral recordings were the closest I have heard / felt to being personally in the hall.

Aside from the spatial aspect, the clarity and detail presented by the BSP were at the same time a major step up in technicality and in emotional involvement. The resemblance to a live listening turned my brain in a very relaxed mode, as it did not need to process, interpret and recreate as much as in the typical reproduced audio delivery. The music seemed to pop-out into the room naturally and effortlessly, more real than usual.

I was afraid about BSP making special-effects trickeries, or distorting the timbre through some kind of artifacts, but that luckily was not the case.

The effect was always improving – to varying degrees – all the tracks I tried, from solo violin or piano, to small jazz or classical ensembles, to big orchestras, to live recordings in big venues.

All in all, based on the loudspeakers part of my audition, I was sold into the system (not sure 50kEuro sold, but the BACCH-SP adio retailing at 24kEuro was becoming a pretty compelling option) and very eager to step into the headphones part of my listening.

The headphones setup was initially made of a Stax SR-009S + SRM-700T, and subsequently expanded to a T+A HA200 (used as amp only) connected to various headphones (Solitaire P, Empyrean Elite, Dan Clark Audio Stealth).

In this case – to my disconcert – the experience was underwhelming, actually going in the opposite direction compared to the speakers audition. I even believed that something went wrong during the calibration, or that something was broken in the setup somehow, as I was perplexed at my own reaction, given how I liked the 2-channel performance.

The dealer checked that everything was OK, tried both his own calibration and mine, and he was adamant in his opinion that the BSP was offering a much better listening experience compared to bypass. He advised me to take my time to adapt to the different presentation, resisting the temptation of doing continuous switching between bypass and BSP on, and so I did for the next several tracks.

Unfortunately, the outcome did not change significantly for me. I tried hard to not jump to conclusions, and listen with open mind and ears, but what I was hearing was not even remotely comparable to listening to 2-channel, let alone 3D audio or “realistic” spatial cues.

What I heard instead was close to the polar opposite of the improvement I perceived in the speaker setup. Soundstage width collapsed, and was strangely extruded in depth, a sense of diffuse reverberation (which was not present neither in the bypass mode with headphones, nor with speakers) was apparent, and the detail and separation of the musical content was blurred. Also, micro and macro-dynamics were less lively (again, just the opposite of what happened with speakers).

The headphones with which the system was relatively more enjoyable were the Solitaire, but with all combinations I felt that the BSP processing was detracting from my overall listening experience.

My host suggested that likely I need much more time to re-calibrate my brain to such a dramatically different presentation, and that he could not listen to headphones without the BSP anymore. I trust him of course, but the few hours I spent with the BSP are the best option I have to assess them, realistically, so I am forced to make my decision based on this admittedly limited time with it.

And the decision is that being my listening done >90% with headphones, the BACCH-SP does not fit well my user scenario.

Again, this is a pity because when used with loudspeakers, it elevates the realism of music reproduction in a consistent way, with no drawbacks I could hear during my test drive.

In any case, I encourage everyone who is interested in it to find a way to audition the BACCH-SP in person, because I have been repeatedly informed that the reaction to this machine is very subjective.


P.S.: Sorry guys for the Off-Topic on the Bartok thread, but I could not see a BACCH-SP thread on head-fi and I did not care about creating one (lazy me) ...

 

[adrianm]

P.S.: Sorry guys for the Off-Topic on the Bartok thread, but I could not see a BACCH-SP thread on head-fi and I did not care about creating one (lazy me) ...

Not as off topic as you'd think. After researching the Bacch I also reached the conclusion it's not what I'm after in headphones (no audition though), and decided to go with dCS for the Expanse, which is a real improvement over "normal listening" in a lot of cases. Very effective at building a center image and getting the sound out of your head. When it works well, it's the best imaging I've heard so far with headphones.

 

[vcoheda]

is the bartok apex going to be the same price as the current bartok ($20k with HP) or will the price go up.

https://dcsaudio.com/product/123456789bartokapex

 

[vcoheda]

looks like the link no longer works -- here are some screen shots from when it was working.

 

[Frankie D]

looks like the link no longer works -- here are some screen shots from when it was working.

Any increase in price makes it a ripoff IMHO. It has already doubled and that is not all due to supply. I love their products though.

 

[ufospls2]

looks like the link no longer works -- here are some screen shots from when it was working.

Thanks for saving the screen shots! Interesting stuff

 

[Andrewteee]

I'll be curious what the upgrade price is for current owners. Rumors imply it's $$$ and there may be two upgrade price tiers based on when you purchased your Bartok.

 

[adrianm]

I'll be curious what the upgrade price is for current owners. Rumors imply it's $$$ and there may be two upgrade price tiers based on when you purchased your Bartok.

As someone paying 10k for a Rossini Apex upgrade that would be unfair imo.

 

[ThanatosVI]

Can the Bartok run Roon Core?
Or does it have its own DSP Engine and can load convolution filters?

 

[adrianm]

Can the Bartok run Roon Core?
Or does it have its own DSP Engine and can load convolution filters?

No dac can run a Roon core, you need a server for that. Linux/Windows/Pi OS. It's a Roon Endpoint, so yes you can use DSP via Roon.

 

[ThanatosVI]

No dac can run a Roon core, you need a server for that. Linux/Windows/Pi OS. It's a Roon Endpoint, so yes you can use DSP via Roon.

Bartok is a Server as well though with integrated access to Tidal etc.
Therefore the question

Can it use convolution filters without Roon?

 

[adrianm]

Bartok is a Server as well though with integrated access to Tidal etc.
Therefore the question

Can it use convolution filters without Roon?

I assume you're referring to the dCS Mosaic control app, but that's just a UPNP app that allows control of the many settings the dac has, as well as volume control and streaming from various services. You can control dCS' own filters, and upsampling, but nothing external without Roon.

 

[ThanatosVI]

I assume you're referring to the dCS Mosaic control app, but that's just a UPNP app that allows control of the many settings the dac has, as well as volume control and streaming from various services. You can control dCS' own filters, and upsampling, but nothing external without Roon.

Thx for the explanation.
So pretty much identical to my T+A

 

[jlbrach]

Any increase in price makes it a ripoff IMHO. It has already doubled and that is not all due to supply. I love their products though.

prices are out of control and ridiculous..some items have doubled in price...there comes a point where it is simply silly