Daydreaming About Saving the Compact Disc
Dec 29, 2007 at 3:38 AM Post #16 of 43
The real problem is album art. Its sucks today. Look at this:
panda_bear-person_pitch.jpg

Bunch of ugly people in a pool. Its crap.

Now back in 1973 he had:
s36909.jpg

Notice the black woman with the ribcage guitar, using a snake for a strap, wearing a brass bra. Theres a dragon and skulls. If you could see the back of the LP it has a 6 armed black guy with a mustache palying a skeleton keyboard. with more skulls.

I bought the Lp just because its so damn Baddassssssssss. (I've never heard it).

Todays albums would sell better if CD artists did as many drugs as back in 1973.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 3:59 AM Post #17 of 43
Quote:

Originally Posted by soundboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif
HK is a city where the music industry is being destroyed by illegal digital downloads and pirated CDs.


No. It self-destructs by insisting on singers and especially lyricists of quality: the lowest conceivable quality.

But what happened in Hong Kong is surely a cautionary tale: almost all CDs by local artists come in packages at least the size of a paperback book, sometimes as big as a cereal box. Their innards are packed with "goodies": in addition to the usual suspects (picture book, DVD, application form to fan club, etc), you get coupons (from stores you've never heard about), tote bags, mittens, T-shirts, hand-cream samples, candies. Is that Desirable? Only if you happen to be a compulsive, pack-rat fan. Most music lovers (not that there are many music lovers that listen to recent HK pop music) loathe these packages: there is no way to store them properly. And, as Soundboy said, it did not help sales one bit.

Meanwhile the HK music industry continues its race to the bottom.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 11:33 AM Post #18 of 43
One thing that drives me towards HDD storage is the durability (provided you keep proper backups). The other day I bought a new CD that arrived with a crack in the centre, thanks to my media server it's not a worry - I just take one secure rip then archive the cd.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 1:02 PM Post #19 of 43
Mr OP, I agree with what you say. For people who care about such things, packaging and album-art would be major selling points. I personally love to look at a nice CD "package" as I'll call it, I just like a need tidy case and artwork, doesn't need to be special but it still adds appeal.
But do you think many, even most, people care about this stuff? I don't think so personally, and it's unfortunate for CD.
There are plenty of awesomely packaged CDs out there. That won't make people buy them. (it'll contribute to me and you buying them though since we like this feature.

I buy CDs for many other reasons also.
I'm probably a simple person, but I just like going to a shelf, selecting a CD with my hands, taking the CD out of it's case, putting it into a CD player, maybe selecting tracks if I have to.
I've thought that this is what some of the appeal for vinyl must be too? I'm not sure, I'm too cheap to invest in that scene.
Also, I like having a central, reasonably permanent and lossless (i.e. in it's distributed form) version of music (CD quality is ok for me, I've never heard SACD... living in Australia sucks I assure you, we don't have sub $100 universal players!). Computer storage just conflicts with years of using my hands to pick things up and read things in an unconstrained way. Yes this is personal preference.
I'm also the sort of person who prefers to write on paper instead of computer, to do hand/head arithmetic instead of using a calculator and the kind of person who likes to prepare fresh food vs. eating anything from a packet.

I hate to be so cliche and general. And I don't mean any disrespect to anyone, everyone has their own reasons for doing anything.
I just think that people want their music served like their food and like their whatever else (be that good or bad, I won't judge). They find it convenient to do things as they do. Convenience will beat anything, including fancy packaging, in my opinion. I'm not grouping convenience with laziness - that is not fair. It is possible, but I don't know if it is so.
I do things in a slow, lumbering manner. I can't do convenience because I just have a preference for procedure and seeing the results of intent form with effort.
I like the "romance" that the inconvenience of CDs provide. Flicking through tracks on a tiny screen on a music player doesn't have the same appeal to me. I'd rather pop in a disc and look at the back of the package.
And maybe I'm really strange but I kind of form bonds with CDs. I see them a lot, use them heaps.

One other thing is that I'm an "album" person... I like to listen start to finish to CDs. I like the cues that get created when you know which song comes next (sure playlists can have this effect also... if you use them that way). A fair percentage of people by my reckoning prefer select tracks from various artists, and just hit shuffle.
Again, it's different uses of music, different appeal to different people. The non-audiophile probably isn't going to be as obsessed with music and form connections with albums/works on a whole. As such CDs again lose out to the ability to have random tracks as you desire (via retail or more usually pirating).

Disclaimer: clueless guy about to ramble and make unsubstantiated claims.
I don't think CD is going anywhere. Would it be fair to say that bluray and hd-dvd have gained market share at a greater rate than SACD/whatever has in audio?
I don't know, but I'd guess with some confidence that the answer is yes.
I'd also guess that portable audio exceeds home theatre in market size (though perhaps not total monetary value)? Why so slow to change formats? My guess is that blu-ray/etc is a new way to sell high-def screens in the same way that MP3 was a way to sell new portable music players... i't's not just the format their trying to sell, it's all the other stuff.
Formats are not about the consumer in my opinion. They're about the best way to make money for companies. There's nothing wrong with that I don't think, we choose to live in this sort of society, we all want to make money
wink.gif
It can just be unfortunate for some people, but that's the way it goes.

I'm way out of my league discussing this stuff obviously. Hopefully I can be slowly enlightened.

So long story short: the average consumer probably has different aims and needs to you and or I.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 1:09 PM Post #20 of 43
Quote:

Originally Posted by silencewithin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There are plenty of awesomely packaged CDs out there. That won't make people buy them. (it'll contribute to me and you buying them though since we like this feature.


Well I disagree with myself there.
biggrin.gif

It can make more people buy them. But remember radiohead/tool/U2 have huge followings of die-hard fans who are probably into music.
Also if every band put out an awesome package it wouldn't be so special and desirable and cool.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 2:59 PM Post #21 of 43
The Hong Kong info is fascinating.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconP /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Most music lovers~~ loathe these packages: there is no way to store them properly.


There is something to be said for standardization. Personally, I don't care. My redbooks get stashed in boxes with the discs places in albums. I used to value packaging more before my collection became unwieldy.

It's and interesting idea. Let's say vinyl continues its modest comeback, and digital downloads replace the CD. Could the Compact Disc be doomed to the middle, offering neither the tangible aspects of the former or convenience of the later.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 6:02 PM Post #22 of 43
I think all this “vinyl comeback” is greatly exaggerated. If you look at the RIAA numbers,vinyl today is practically nothing (about 1 new vinyl sold for every 350-400 CDs!)Just a blip at the screen.Who buys vinyl anyway? Some vinyl heads and few miscellaneous college students. Noone else does! And I believe a pretty big number (esp youngsters) who buy vinyl will never listen to it or they don’t even have a turntable. They buy it for collectability and because it looks cool-not as a music carrier. They almost certainly have it as a MP3 anyway .Its more like a piece of merchandize like the T-shirts and posters.
From all formats i still prefer a (well mastered) CD. Is much more convenient than vinyl but still has the tangible aspect.I especially like the Japanese mini LP/CD replicas (which i collect).
As for music files i never use them at home-only when i'm out where the convenience is most important.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 6:17 PM Post #23 of 43
Wow! I get home to find almost a full page of lengthy, thoughful posts! This is great!

Here's something I hadn't considered - a counterpoint to the ideal I presented, spurred by the Rolling Stone sound quality article getting attention here: Mastering.

I suppose it would be completely naive to presume that a record company would be willing to have two versions of a recording; a dynamic mix for CD and a super-compressed version for digital downloads/mp3.

Also, that American up there had a good point with regard to standardization. A nice package is one thing, but within limits. People need to store their media and it would be an absolute disaster if the shapes, sizes and materials made organization an impossibility. Hell, with the description of the deluxe packaging in Hong Kong, it sounds like you're buying a case of Budweiser, with a free t-shirt, coupons, other ads, etc... I would be appalled if I were to receive something like that over extras that relate directly to the music and enhance the experience.

Keep 'em coming folks!
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 6:25 PM Post #24 of 43
Quote:

Originally Posted by eduj /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think all this “vinyl comeback” is greatly exaggerated.


Uh...sure you do. You don't buy vinyl and you have no interest in it!! Thank you for the enlightening revelation.

I'm sure the folks who get their music from iTunes consider CD a dying format that no one wants.

Look, I won't argue that vinyl has limited appeal relative to the entire market. But the market for vinyl is large enough for record labels to issue some new releases on vinyl, for them to reissue catalog titles and classics from their vaults on vinyl, and for companies like Classic Records to press 200g vinyl records for the audiophile community. Vinyl is thriving. Will it overtake CD or music downloads? Not a chance...but that isn't really the point.

--Jerome
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 6:38 PM Post #25 of 43
Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Uh...sure you do. You don't buy vinyl and you have no interest in it!! Thank you for the enlightening revelation.

I'm sure the folks who get their music from iTunes consider CD a dying format that no one wants.

Look, I won't argue that vinyl has limited appeal relative to the entire market. But the market for vinyl is large enough for record labels to issue some new releases on vinyl, for them to reissue catalog titles and classics from their vaults on vinyl, and for companies like Classic Records to press 200g vinyl records for the audiophile community. Vinyl is thriving. Will it overtake CD or music downloads? Not a chance...but that isn't really the point.

--Jerome



I look at the RIAA numbers.Vinyl sales the last 5 years are at the 1.5-2 million units per year.CDs are at the 500-800 million units per year.So vinyl is a small niche market.And i do expect CDs (with SACDs& DVD-As) to become niche in the future.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 6:45 PM Post #26 of 43
Quote:

Originally Posted by jsaliga /img/forum/go_quote.gif
But the market for vinyl is large enough for record labels to issue some new releases on vinyl...


And fortunately, since it is more of a niche market, the vinyl release is often farmed out to someone who isn't compelled to make it loud just for the sake of competition with other loud releases. And so the vinyl is often a much better and more dynamic mastering, without the super compression and clipping and strident EQ, even if from the same source file or tape.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 7:50 PM Post #29 of 43
Quote:

Originally Posted by Davey /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And fortunately, since it is more of a niche market, the vinyl release is often farmed out to someone who isn't compelled to make it loud just for the sake of competition with other loud releases. And so the vinyl is often a much better and more dynamic mastering, without the super compression and clipping and strident EQ, even if from the same source file or tape.


I hope that when CDs will become more of a niche market in the future that this will result in better mastering.
 
Dec 29, 2007 at 9:37 PM Post #30 of 43
Quote:

Originally Posted by eduj /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I think all this “vinyl comeback” is greatly exaggerated. If you look at the RIAA numbers,vinyl today is practically nothing (about 1 new vinyl sold for every 350-400 CDs!.


Well, I don't buy vinyl, and I can't generalize about who does. The RIAA is only the four major labels. Granted that's a big slice, but not the whole pie. And viinyl sales have increased while CD sales have decreased. It depends on how you define comeback. To me it qualifies as one.

Anyone have a good article about vinyl sales? If memory serves me right, they have increased by more than ten fold this decade (NPR). That's memory though so don't hold me to it. I pooh poohed it as late as a couple years ago. Lately, I'm inclined not to.
 

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