[InsideTM]

Thanks for posting this, I'm at a different/less expensive stage in my journey but know the feeling of dilemma well.

Hope it's not cheeky / bad form (will readily delete if so) but do any of you any experience of the M11 Vs NW-A105?

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Wouldn't the DAP being Android allow Tidal offline playback?

@Kad998 Can you specify a bit what exactly did the Cayin do better in terms of SQ and sound signature?

Thanks

I am so embedded into the ios world that I completely missed the fact that Android apps work on DAPs that run Android. You just opened up my mind to DAPs in a way I never considered until now. Thank you. It should be possible to have a high quality DAP that runs the Android native Tidal app so that you can download music and use all the features of Tidal rather than what a music player offers you. Moreover, it can stream over wifi and bypass all of the suboptimal electronics and USB connects of smartphones.

 

[vibez]

I am so embedded into the ios world that I completely missed the fact that Android apps work on DAPs that run Android. You just opened up my mind to DAPs in a way I never considered until now. Thank you. It should be possible to have a high quality DAP that runs the Android native Tidal app so that you can download music and use all the features of Tidal rather than what a music player offers you. Moreover, it can stream over wifi and bypass all of the suboptimal electronics and USB connects of smartphones.

You are welcome.Thanks for clarifying.

 

[vibez]

Hi, would appreciate if anyone could answer any of the points in this post (below).

Thanks.

Thanks all for the comments.

I have tried to find a comparison between n6ii and SE200 but so far haven’t found anywhere. If anyone can share or point me in the direction would be grateful.

I was also thinking about R3 + Mojo setup, can anyone confirm if the SQ is the same as mojo+poly?

for those mentioning n6ii and se200 better than mojo in SQ, I was researching online and found that the DAC processor and programming used by Chord is proprietary and apparently much more powerful than aftermarket DAC chips. How would the AKM chip then best the Mojo? Any thoughts on this?

thanks a lot
Umar

 

[vibez]

Hi, would appreciate if anyone could answer any of the points in this post (below).

Thanks.

No one?

BTW I saw a post where DAPs were posted in order of SQ by everyone. I cannot find it now, can someone please post a link?

Thanks
Umar

 

[Mhog55]

Shanling M8 is another option.

 

[vibez]

Shanling M8 is another option.

Is it good enough to compete with se200 or Cayin n6ii?

 

[Mhog55]

Is it good enough to compete with se200 or Cayin n6ii?

I don't own it, but I don't see why it wouldn't. Flagship dap, 3 balanced options, dual ak4499 chips, 64 bit android audio, interchangeable headphone sockets. Unless you want a ton of internal storage, or the ability to swap motherboards (n6ii), I definitely think it's worth looking into. If I could afford to spend that much money on a dap, I'd be choosing between this and the Hiby R8. I'd also recommend shooting member Nayparm a message. He's owned every dap under the sun, and trust his opinion 100%. His favorite dap is the R8. Good luck with your search.

 

[monsieurfromag3]

I am so embedded into the ios world that I completely missed the fact that Android apps work on DAPs that run Android. You just opened up my mind to DAPs in a way I never considered until now. Thank you. It should be possible to have a high quality DAP that runs the Android native Tidal app so that you can download music and use all the features of Tidal rather than what a music player offers you. Moreover, it can stream over wifi and bypass all of the suboptimal electronics and USB connects of smartphones.

The next rabbit hole to peer down into: the Tidal app sucks as a player. UAPP pulls the stream from Tidal and makes it sound right. So even with an Android DAP you may be better served bypassing the Tidal app itself. Spotify, Qobuz etc. reportedly don’t suffer from the same issue.

No one?

BTW I saw a post where DAPs were posted in order of SQ by everyone. I cannot find it now, can someone please post a link?

Thanks
Umar

You may be thinking about this thread.

As to your, very legitimate, question about the Mojo DAC vs an off-the-shelf chip from AKM, ESS or Cirrus Logic, I am in no way an expert myself, but let me tell you the story of How My First Website Was a Useless Reinvention of the Wheel.
Once upon a time, many moons ago, as inexperienced bloggers coming from the world of print journalism, my girlfriend (now wife) and I wanted a blog with a slick, professional, distinctive visual identity, and powerful editing tools. So we paid good money to a graphic designer and a developer to implement just that. We agreed upon a unique look, and then the dev came in and turned that cool layout into a usable website. She also painstakingly programmed the entire back-office. She put in the hours no doubt, and the whole thing worked as intended after a couple of bug fixes.
Exhilarated, we went live - only to find out the blog was not search-engine optimized, and the back-office was a rigid structure that wouldn’t let us evolve. The entire endeavor, born dead.
Turns out, all we needed was a custom Wordpress template.

Well, I somewhat suspect Chord and their luminary Rob Watts went about programming the FPGA DAC in a similar way. It’s an incredibly potent and capable solution, but in actual terms? Just a reinvention of the wheel, that does not add to the final user experience in any meaningful way.
Once you reach a point where the difference between DACs is that one goes up to 768Mhz instead of 384 (arguably overkill even in a recording setting), distortion is a 2 instead of a 3 six figures behind the dot, and SNR is so high if it was fully exploited you’d go deaf within three seconds, why bother? Amplification is where the party’s at. Cayin’s approach with the $500 N3Pro makes much more sense to me than A&K’s with the $1800 SE200 - three amplification options are better than two DAC-based paths.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

The next rabbit hole to peer down into: the Tidal app sucks as a player. UAPP pulls the stream from Tidal and makes it sound right. So even with an Android DAP you may be better served bypassing the Tidal app itself. Spotify, Qobuz etc. reportedly don’t suffer from the same issue.

I do want the best sound I can get as the first priority. So, I have been using DNLA apps like mconnect with my Chord Mojo/Poly. I also use BluOS when I get the Tidal Steam from my Bluesound Node 2i. I think that may be using Tidal Connect and the embedded software developed by them. The thing I don't like is that I use my iPhone as the controller, but I select music in very different ways. I have a hard time finding the right music at times. I'd like to have a single user interface for selecting music, but I don't want to lose the embedded music selection features of Tidal. Please don't tell me I need to sign up for Roon.

 

[etlouis]

Umar,

About 6 or 7 months ago, I did the same thing. I absolutely loved the sound of the Mojo, however the user friendliness could be a pain sometimes and a part of me really just wanted an all in one solution.

I started off carefully but really fell in love with DAPs. I started safely with the M11. Loved the user interface, loved the functionality but the sound left me with a bit to be desired from the Mojo/Poly’s warm sound. I didn’t waste much time before I jumped back in. By week 2, I looked towards the Cayin N6ii. 2 weeks later, I purchased it. Absolutely loved the sound and could’ve retired there. I had no problems with streaming but at the time i was in the process of mass purchasing my online library to all FLAC files. And once I got a taste on the N6ii, I could genuinely tell a difference between the two on that DAP, I just kind of stopped streaming on there.

That lead me to a place where I knew that i could live without streaming which was a huge point of contention for me. I was worried that I wouldn’t be able to and then I saw that I could. The one problem that I had with the N6ii was battery life. It would last me about 10/11ish hours during a workday and I’d be scrambling for chargers left and right and that was a small bother for me. Soundwise, I knew I could retire at the N6ii. It had the warmth and thickness that I love. However, the battery life was about a no-go for me because my workdays are so long.

Always having the WM1 series in the back of my mind, I was about to get a WM1A but I found the WM1Z for 2.2k on amazon for the international version. I sent my Cayin back, offloaded some of my desktop stuff since I am a portable guy, and received the 1Z in the mail shortly. I honestly haven’t looked back since I received it. Stock sound is immaculate. There are threads here for firmware updates that take all of 30 seconds and they have boosted what I already thought was the endgame of sound. (If you do go that route, let me know and I’ll add you to the threads). I gave up streaming but before I bought the 1Z and I was asking around, I was told that the Bluetooth receiver would sound better than the majority of other daps. I didn’t believe it but for me, it edged the Mojo/Poly, maybe a tie with the Cayin N6II, and beat out the M11 for me. So streaming was no longer a big deal for me. It’s solid, dependable, and the UI is a breeze. It doesn’t have a plethora of excessive features. This thing is strictly for the music but it’s solid and can last for a decade lol.... Mine hasn’t crashed once in 6 months. No freezing, no bugs, no nothing. Just pure delivery of music. If you can’t find the 1Z for a great price, the group of people I told you about are wizards and have created firmwares to bring the WM1A up to speed to the 1Z Stock sound and maybe even surpass the 1Z stock (Again, i can send you the link if you go that route). They are dedicated to pushing these boundaries.

All in all, it depends on what you need. If you absolutely need streaming and wifi and android, the Cayin N6ii is a beautiful piece of equipment. If you just need pure sound, WM1A/WM1Z. Feel free to ask me anything further

I have rarely seen wm1z in the outside world. Mostly for home-use.

AK sp1000m or sp2000 are also good choices.


Personally I have a gripe with how heavy these portable DAPs are getting.

The wm1a was a bit heavy. Held only barely by trustworthy pants and belts.

I am considering fanny packs for the job. Or switch to a lighter, more carry-able DAP that isn't too much of a compromise in sound.

 

[vibez]

The next rabbit hole to peer down into: the Tidal app sucks as a player. UAPP pulls the stream from Tidal and makes it sound right. So even with an Android DAP you may be better served bypassing the Tidal app itself. Spotify, Qobuz etc. reportedly don’t suffer from the same issue.

You may be thinking about this thread.

As to your, very legitimate, question about the Mojo DAC vs an off-the-shelf chip from AKM, ESS or Cirrus Logic, I am in no way an expert myself, but let me tell you the story of How My First Website Was a Useless Reinvention of the Wheel.
Once upon a time, many moons ago, as inexperienced bloggers coming from the world of print journalism, my girlfriend (now wife) and I wanted a blog with a slick, professional, distinctive visual identity, and powerful editing tools. So we paid good money to a graphic designer and a developer to implement just that. We agreed upon a unique look, and then the dev came in and turned that cool layout into a usable website. She also painstakingly programmed the entire back-office. She put in the hours no doubt, and the whole thing worked as intended after a couple of bug fixes.
Exhilarated, we went live - only to find out the blog was not search-engine optimized, and the back-office was a rigid structure that wouldn’t let us evolve. The entire endeavor, born dead.
Turns out, all we needed was a custom Wordpress template.

Well, I somewhat suspect Chord and their luminary Rob Watts went about programming the FPGA DAC in a similar way. It’s an incredibly potent and capable solution, but in actual terms? Just a reinvention of the wheel, that does not add to the final user experience in any meaningful way.
Once you reach a point where the difference between DACs is that one goes up to 768Mhz instead of 384 (arguably overkill even in a recording setting), distortion is a 2 instead of a 3 six figures behind the dot, and SNR is so high if it was fully exploited you’d go deaf within three seconds, why bother? Amplification is where the party’s at. Cayin’s approach with the $500 N3Pro makes much more sense to me than A&K’s with the $1800 SE200 - three amplification options are better than two DAC-based paths.

Thanks for the response, an interesting take on the issue. You are right in saying the amp matters a lot, however when you look at the reviews on the Chord DACs all across they are rated very high in SQ. The detail retrieval and 'feel' of the music is real and very enjoyable. To give an example, I was about to push the button to buy the FiiO m15, but stopped because some reviews online said it lacked excitement (so while being technically very good the end result is not that great - meaning the integration of the high end components and tuning plays an important part in the overall SQ).
Unfortunately I have not been able to find despite my best efforts comparisons in SQ between chord mojo+poly and the DAPs I am looking at. Which is why the selection process is difficult for me, and spending around $2k is not a small amount so need to be as diligent as possible

I am really interested in views on Cayin n6ii vs A&K SE200 or Chord Mojo/Poly. A few people here have helped me a lot in explaining that SE200 sounds better in every way to the mojo/poly setup, but I have not found any comparisons with the Cayin which also seems to be very high on the reviewers recommendations.

Hopefully someone can help here.

Regards
Umar

 

[Mhog55]

Thanks for the response, an interesting take on the issue. You are right in saying the amp matters a lot, however when you look at the reviews on the Chord DACs all across they are rated very high in SQ. The detail retrieval and 'feel' of the music is real and very enjoyable. To give an example, I was about to push the button to buy the FiiO m15, but stopped because some reviews online said it lacked excitement (so while being technically very good the end result is not that great - meaning the integration of the high end components and tuning plays an important part in the overall SQ).
Unfortunately I have not been able to find despite my best efforts comparisons in SQ between chord mojo+poly and the DAPs I am looking at. Which is why the selection process is difficult for me, and spending around $2k is not a small amount so need to be as diligent as possible

I am really interested in views on Cayin n6ii vs A&K SE200 or Chord Mojo/Poly. A few people here have helped me a lot in explaining that SE200 sounds better in every way to the mojo/poly setup, but I have not found any comparisons with the Cayin which also seems to be very high on the reviewers recommendations.

Hopefully someone can help here.

Regards
Umar

Which motherboard are you considering? Considering that the Chord Mojo uses proprietary software, it's difficult to know where to find a dap with comparable sound quality, or if one exists that the individual user will find satisfactory. Do you have in mind what or whose dac chips you may prefer?

 

[vibez]

Which motherboard are you considering? Considering that the Chord Mojo uses proprietary software, it's difficult to know where to find a dap with comparable sound quality, or if one exists that the individual user will find satisfactory. Do you have in mind what or whose dac chips you may prefer?

I see many people prefer the e02. Of course later I can buy another since the flexibility is there.

On the mojo+poly, I am looking for comments from someone who has experienced all or some of the DAPs above and also listened to mojo. Even if subjective it would be good to hear what they have to say.

Regards
Umar

 

[Mhog55]

I see many people prefer the e02. Of course later I can buy another since the flexibility is there.

On the mojo+poly, I am looking for comments from someone who has experienced all or some of the DAPs above and also listened to mojo. Even if subjective it would be good to hear what they have to say.

Regards
Umar

Perhaps explaining in as much detail possible - what you like about the Chords sonics would help with that. I know implementation plays a big role, but some dap manufacturers generally stick to a house sound, and while different tuning can make a difference, different dac chips generally retain certain sonic qualities. Just a thought.