DAC3SE vs DAC19 DSP vs everything else.

[vlach]

Quote:

I am using DAC-19DF for nearly 3 months now with some entry-level power cables (Audio Art Power 1), interconnects (Oyaide DR-510 ) and power distrubutor (Russ Andrews The PowerLink). It sounds good with synergy. I just wonder does it make it a big difference to upgrade to DAC3SE? (2 x 1704 VS 4 x 1704, natural VS musical)

Don't forget the diamond differential analog output, extensive voltage regulation and significantly increased power supply (3 transformers vs 1). It's getting harder & harder for me to imagine the 3SE would not be a worthwhile upgrade, especially after hearing Regal's comments who owns both!

 

[Audio Bling]

Quote:

[..] I just wonder does it make it a big difference to upgrade to DAC3SE? (2 x 1704 VS 4 x 1704, natural VS musical)

 
I think Haloxt said it somewhere and I think it makes sense: DAC-19 to DAC-3SE is not going to be a significant upgrade. Sure, the 3SE could be better but wouldn't you want a lot better?

 

 

[regal]

 
Quote:

Don't forget the diamond differential analog output, extensive voltage regulation and significantly increased power supply (3 transformers vs 1). It's getting harder & harder for me to imagine the 3SE would not be a worthwhile upgrade, especially after hearing Regal's comments who owns both!

  No power conditioner or cleanup to the Ac from the wall can make up for the difference between 1 and 3 transformers.  
 
Dac's are meant to have a separate power transformer for digital than analog,  this is just old school high end DAC design.  Sharing the same transformer means HF crud from the digital section getting through the power regulators for the analog stage.  Separate transformers have always given a fuller truer to the recording sound on any DAC I've built.  Pre DAC power conditioning can't help this issue if the transformer is shared between digital and analog.
 

 

[Epoch]

Some of the posters have the DAC-19DF though, so there may be a larger jump as compared to the original question of the DAC-19DSP and DAC-3SE.  I am under the impression that there are audible improvements going from the DF to DSP version of the DAC-19.
There are also a few that appear to have the C2 as well, so its now DAC-19DF w/ACSS vs DAC-19DSP w/ACSS vs DAC-3SE w/RCA for some people asking these questions.  That is a question that does seem quite interesting though, with some external power conditioning, is there a fairly large jump between any of those choices, also complicated by the connection method.
 
From my limited reading, the DAC-3SE should be the better choice when using RCA, but I haven't seen anything about that kind of comparison with ACSS thrown in.  That would be an interesting read.

 

[oqvist]

Audio gds gear is surely a jungle

 
Sent an email. You can´t get DSP with the DAC3SE it seems. Gonna have to search if I can find a good writeup on DF1704 vs dsp. I suspect the DAC3SE would be slightly less warm then the Ref9 if it behaves similar to the DAC19 with DSP and without?
 
I am thinking of getting some hiface. Is Kingwas digitals interface as good as the original? Would it replace the need for a DSP or be a better solution then REf9 with DSP1? Yet another box but it seems to have two coaxial outs even though the connectors look different? Is one BNC or? Has anyone compared it to coaxial out of soundcards like the Elite Pro and Essence STX? I would preferr to use coaxial if it´s not worse then USB. Since I have so many USB devices anyway that may make things crappy.
 
They are both using R-cores but I didn´t get confirmation if they are the same or different.

 

[oqvist]

http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83SE/
 
It´s going to be this I can feeeeel it. It says it´s made for the north american market but the PSU is switchable and it´s sold over here as well? What functionality would potentially be lost since it handles both pal and ntsc?
 

 

[haloxt]

What do you mean lose functions when it supports PAL and NTSC formats? These are for video not audio.
 
Lots of questions, pardon the format I answer them in
 
Sent an email. You can´t get DSP with the DAC3SE it seems. The DSP module costs at least $150, so it may make sense to just get the Ref9 with built-in DSP. Gonna have to search if I can find a good writeup on DF1704 vs dsp. Slim.A has described some of these filters here and here. I suspect the DAC3SE would be slightly less warm then the Ref9 if it behaves similar to the DAC19 with DSP and without? You really have to be more specific. What do you mean by "if it behaves similar to the DAC19"? I speculate, but haven't heard, that the current DF1704 dac3se may be less "full-bodied" than the ref 9 due to the use of DF1704 instead of DSP1.
 
I am thinking of getting some hiface. Is Kingwas digitals interface as good as the original? I have only read a few people compare, but those that have say they do prefer the DI. I highly recommend reading the DI thread because they describe the sound characteristics of some of the different usb converters. Would it replace the need for a DSP or be a better solution then REf9 with DSP1? If you are asking if Dac3se+DI is better than Ref9, I speculate "no" based on connecting a dac19mk3 with alternately pmd-100 and df1704 filters to a usb converter with DSP3, the discontinued Ref 3 reclocker. I believe the digital filter in the DF1704's forward sound characteristic will still be somewhat imparted even with a reclocker in front of it. Yet another box but it seems to have two coaxial outs even though the connectors look different? Is one BNC or? Yes it is BNC. Has anyone compared it to coaxial out of soundcards like the Elite Pro and Essence STX? People have different preferences, and some would say it is different for every computer because all computers have different hardware. Personally I prefer straight USB over my claro halo+ optical spdif. I would preferr to use coaxial if it´s not worse then USB. Try it and find out, different computer components can have very different specs, enough to sometimes make USB better than PCI soundcard coax or the other way around. Since I have so many USB devices anyway that may make things crappy. Having too many usb devices is believed by some to be bad for usb audio, try it and see.
 
They are both using R-cores but I didn´t get confirmation if they are the same or different. Did you ask Kingwa if the dac3se really has R-core transformers? I remember even the recently discontinued ref 1 had toroidal transformers, but maybe audio-gd updated the dac3se recently.

 

[oqvist]

Ah yes that gets quite a maze
 
Yes I asked if it had R-cores and he said yes. He didn´t mention if it was the same or if the Ref9 is upgraded in any way.
 
The things I read about the DF1704 is that it has less warmth then the dsp using the DAC19. I can´t be more specific than that since it´s kind of a question. The DAC3SE and Ref9 seem quite similar in design so may be similar results there?
 
The Oppos are actually for both video and audio. Particularly the SE is priced and marketed towards audiophiles. It´s pretty silly but they even have a "Nuforce edition" that is supposed to sound like some nuforce cd player. I haven´t been able to tell what is differing it from the SE except costing 300$ more

I couldn´t order the Oppos from their homepage but apparently the NA versions is Region A locked whereas the other version is region free. Don´t know if there is more differences? I am trying to find the right UK retailer currently to order from. I found crtprojectors.co.uk that offer 2 year warranty. But it seems like they import the US versions and adapt them to be region free. Dunno if there is a downside to that. Amazon.co.uk only offers 1 year warranty for some odd reason.
 
I have use for a more quite PS3 and a better transport for my movie/music for the DAC19 and it´s nice to have a SACD/HDCD and DVD audio player as well. And from what I heard it´s really good using the analogue outs as well. Surely better then my AV Receiver or I will be majorly disappointed

 

[regal]

I would send him a PMD100,  this was the original 3SE design and it is quite nice.  The DF1704 substitution would be a deal-killer for me I think you would be better to save for the DAC-9 if you don't want the PMD100.  You can get the PMD100 off ebay for around $30 last I checked.  It is limited to 20 bit 88.2 so that may not work for you.   I just would not spend $900+ on a DF1704 DAC,  its a budget peice and would be a bottleneck.
 

 
Quote:

Audio gds gear is surely a jungle

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Sent an email. You can´t get DSP with the DAC3SE it seems. Gonna have to search if I can find a good writeup on DF1704 vs dsp. I suspect the DAC3SE would be slightly less warm then the Ref9 if it behaves similar to the DAC19 with DSP and without?
 
I am thinking of getting some hiface. Is Kingwas digitals interface as good as the original? Would it replace the need for a DSP or be a better solution then REf9 with DSP1? Yet another box but it seems to have two coaxial outs even though the connectors look different? Is one BNC or? Has anyone compared it to coaxial out of soundcards like the Elite Pro and Essence STX? I would preferr to use coaxial if it´s not worse then USB. Since I have so many USB devices anyway that may make things crappy.
 
They are both using R-cores but I didn´t get confirmation if they are the same or different.

 

[SaiSai]

So if I am using DAC-19 DF with good interconnect, power cables and power distributor, is it really worth it to upgrade to DAC3SE, Ref 5 DF/DSP or even NFB1? I only listen to Orchestral Music.

 

[regal]

Quote:

So if I am using DAC-19 DF with good interconnect, power cables and power distributor, is it really worth it to upgrade to DAC3SE, Ref 5 DF/DSP or even NFB1? I only listen to Orchestral Music.

If you aren't balance then rule out the RE5 (its just a balance 19),  rule out NFB1 as it is a big unknown.   Rule out the 3SE cause it has a crappy DF1704 now instead of the original PM100.  So I think you have your answer.

 
I did a lot of critical comparisons between the 3SE (PMD100) and the DAC19 )PMD100 tonight after reading this thread.   The 3SE has the 19 beat has far as distortion, clarity, instrument separation, imagining, tonality.  But the darn 19 has better PRAT,  got me thiking I to hear a RE1. 

 
I would say an RE1 or RE7 would be your only logical upgrade at this point,  unless you happen to hear a NFB1 and like it.

 

[SaiSai]

 
Quote:

If you aren't balance then rule out the RE5 (its just a balance 19),  rule out NFB1 as it is a big unknown.   Rule out the 3SE cause it has a crappy DF1704 now instead of the original PM100.  So I think you have your answer.

 
I did a lot of critical comparisons between the 3SE (PMD100) and the DAC19 )PMD100 tonight after reading this thread.   The 3SE has the 19 beat has far as distortion, clarity, instrument separation, imagining, tonality.  But the darn 19 has better PRAT,  got me thiking I to hear a RE1. 

 
I would say an RE1 or RE7 would be your only logical upgrade at this point,  unless you happen to hear a NFB1 and like it.

 
Thanks for pouring some cold water on me, hehe!
I am not balance. I am very happy with the sound I got now.  I am just curious about the change from 2 X 1704 to 4 X 1704.

 

[regal]

Quote:

  I am just curious about the change from 2 X 1704 to 4 X 1704.

Thats one of those things that really hasn't been shown to have universal consensus,  certainly Burr-Brown never intended these chips to be paralelled.  I wouldn't lose sleep over it.   The main thing our 19's are missing versus the Re7 are the separate upgraded powersupplies.
 

 

[SaiSai]

 
Quote:

Thats one of those things that really hasn't been shown to have universal consensus,  certainly Burr-Brown never intended these chips to be paralelled.  I wouldn't lose sleep over it.   The main thing our 19's are missing versus the Re7 are the separate upgraded powersupplies.
 

Thanks regal, my mood for the DAC upgrade has diminished. I better stick with my current rig.
 

 

[oqvist]

 
Quote:

If you aren't balance then rule out the RE5 (its just a balance 19),  rule out NFB1 as it is a big unknown.   Rule out the 3SE cause it has a crappy DF1704 now instead of the original PM100.  So I think you have your answer.

 
I did a lot of critical comparisons between the 3SE (PMD100) and the DAC19 )PMD100 tonight after reading this thread.   The 3SE has the 19 beat has far as distortion, clarity, instrument separation, imagining, tonality.  But the darn 19 has better PRAT,  got me thiking I to hear a RE1. 

 
I would say an RE1 or RE7 would be your only logical upgrade at this point,  unless you happen to hear a NFB1 and like it.

 
I am sitting with my trigger finger on a REF9 and now you tell me the DAC19 have better PRaT. If it´s something the DAC19 doesn´t have it´s PraT. I need to run my Ultrasones to get any kind of action
going for music that is supposed to be fun

.
 
Classical recordings are just about always good so the DAC19 should do very well there. It´s where it impressed the most for me anyway.
I was after an oppo but then the BD93 was announced. Not interested in that but the 93SE I would be dead curious about. But will probably get the 83SE anyway. Now I do hope this one has PRaT then I would be fun with a more laid back REF9 surely.
Anybody heard it or Audio GDS sabre DACs if they might be some indication..