[Willakan]

The Benchmark DAC1 isn't sterile, or digital-sounding, or unmusical. It is completely impossible for the Benchmark to deliver anything other than exactly what it is given. It's probably overkill, but with the Benchmark you can be sure that anyone who says their DAC sounds better either has some high distortion NOS crap, or is simply wrong.
 
/dons flamesuit

 

[korzena]

Quote:

Good depth and holography.....you want what everyone wants.  I have heard lots of dacs from cheap to about $5k.  None give me great holographic images with most standard setups.  Reason is not the dacs but the source before it.  Definite changes in noise floor on the computer or source coupled with tweaks to the player, if using a computer, add more to that illusive holographic sound we are all seeking.  Not to mention associated components.  As for great depth.  It is also a function of low noise floor but more importantly of ambient cues in the recording.  The thing that reveals these cues the most is low jitter.  So be on the look out for low jitter dacs that work well in real world situations like async transports and good low jitter connections from your computer or cd player.  Another thing to note is if a dac consistently has good depth with most recordings it probably has a slightly recessed midrange like the Eastern Electric I had in my system for while.
 
Having owned two Benchmark DAC 1, I can tell you that it is fairly quiet but a bit dry and sterile sounding.  I have heard a few dacs under $1200 that are really good with the right transport like the Halide Bridge for example.  If you put the Halide with the Benchmark for example things get better, but when you put it with something like the relatively known Blue Circle BS-509 you get way good sound.  If I were you, I would want to hear the new Halide Designs dac coming out in October.  I also liked the PS Audio DL3 with the Halide bridge as a transport from the computer.  You can find used DL3 s fairly easily.  Being in Europe I would try to see if anyone has the Hegel or Metrum dac for you to hear or try.  These seem like good solid designs.
 
Good luck and let us know what you end up with.

bixby,
Thank you for the long and helpful answer!
 
I will be using Squeezebox Touch as a transport (supposed to be good, but I haven't done any comparisons to other transports so I don't know)
 
I was very interested in the Eastern Electric DAC, however now they've made a new more expensive version and I don't feel like it is a very good choice anymore.
From the reviews I've read, I've also come to conclusion that Benchmark DAC 1 is a sterile sounding one and this is something I really want to avoid!
From the very quick look at the Halide Designs website it looks like being more addressed to computer/USB guys and I would like to use coaxial from my Squeezebox.
Digital Link III DAC looks very interesting - do you remember its sound characteristics?
Metrum dac is on my short list. At the moment I believe there is a few weeks waiting time for it.
I will check the Hegel, too.
I've noticed you have Blue Circle BC-509 DAC. It's not known to me at all. Is it any good?
 
Appreciate your help!
Andrew

 

[bixby]

 
Quote:

bixby,
Thank you for the long and helpful answer!
 
I will be using Squeezebox Touch as a transport (supposed to be good, but I haven't done any comparisons to other transports so I don't know)
 
I was very interested in the Eastern Electric DAC, however now they've made a new more expensive version and I don't feel like it is a very good choice anymore.
From the reviews I've read, I've also come to conclusion that Benchmark DAC 1 is a sterile sounding one and this is something I really want to avoid!
From the very quick look at the Halide Designs website it looks like being more addressed to computer/USB guys and I would like to use coaxial from my Squeezebox.
Digital Link III DAC looks very interesting - do you remember its sound characteristics?
Metrum dac is on my short list. At the moment I believe there is a few weeks waiting time for it.
I will check the Hegel, too.
I've noticed you have Blue Circle BC-509 DAC. It's not known to me at all. Is it any good?
 
Appreciate your help!
Andrew

First thing with the Squeezebox touch is to do some tweaks.  On its own via wifi it can sound a bit thin and a little tipped up in the lower treble.  It's soundstage width and depth are a bit less than a good computer direct source.  But when you start to tweak it it gets better.  Here is a great link on the steps you can take.  I just messed with the first few and things are quieter, smoother, more balanced, and helped soundstage and depth.  If you can go direct connect Ethernet it should be even better.  I am not at the moment.
 
http://soundcheck-audio.blogspot.com/2011/01/soundchecks-squeezebox-touch-toolbox-20.html
 
The PS audio is good via coax and has a good musical sound with slight upper bass warmth and a bit of a forwardness in the upper mids that is pleasant.  Slightly veiled and the highs are not as sweet or extended when compared to the Blue Circle.  Also imaging is more  of the wall of sound live type presentation versus pinpoint imaging but very likeable.
 
As for the Blue Circle, I like it better than my Benchmark, my Lavry, the PS Audio, the Wyred 4 Sound, the Eastern Electric, the Ayre, the Tranquility and some others I have heard.  I am not saying it is better, just that I preferred it.  It is a very musical dac.  And it does imaging well especially with the Halide Feeding it.  I may be going to USB only solution soon and will sell it but only after I hear the Halide dac later in the year.  And any other contenders that come up at RMAF in Oct.
 
 
 

 

[bixby]

 
Quote:

The Benchmark DAC1 isn't sterile, or digital-sounding, or unmusical. It is completely impossible for the Benchmark to deliver anything other than exactly what it is given. It's probably overkill, but with the Benchmark you can be sure that anyone who says their DAC sounds better either has some high distortion NOS crap, or is simply wrong.
 
/dons flamesuit

You obviously do not get out much 

  I liked the Benchmark DAC 1 a lot, in fact I owned TWO of them.  Yet even I would describe them as somewhat dry and sterile.  Having heard lots of other dacs during and since I owned them, I am very comfortable in saying they are a really nice dac and will mate well with many systems, but I would not say it sounded better than a lot of other dacs.  I have heard numerous ones that I preferred to the Benchmark.  It decodes just fine even though it puts the bits through a lot of hoops before you get to hear it and manages to do so without much jitter, but it is still an audio component and as such is going to have a sonic signature.  You are kidding yourself if you think it does not.  okay flames off 

 
As for high distortion NOS crap, have you heard the Metrum?  I have not and have owned and heard some NOS stuff.  I did not care for some of the lower cost implementations but have heard the AMR and Tranquility and they sound very good indeed with no apparent distortions that I could hear.
 

 

[Willakan]

The Benchmark DAC excedes all measurable thresholds of audibility on any conceivable measurement you can throw at it. If there's something you don't like about the sound it produces, blame the source material. I repeat, it is impossible for the Benchmark to be sterile/harsh, in the same way things with flat frequency responses don't tend to be bright. If you found something that sounds different, it's either producing the music inaccurately or the comparison between the products was sighted/not volume matched and thus very bias prone or highly inaccurate respectively.
 
As for distortion, I'm not referring to blatantly audible distortion, more uncomfortably high THD, that sort of thing. Oversampling allows us to overcome the huge limitations of NOS DACs, so any 'true' NOS products are simply dodgy design.

 

[Dynobot]

Someone is fishing for a debate.
 
 

 

[tim3320070]

Quote:

The Benchmark DAC excedes all measurable thresholds of audibility on any conceivable measurement you can throw at it. If there's something you don't like about the sound it produces, blame the source material. I repeat, it is impossible for the Benchmark to be sterile/harsh, in the same way things with flat frequency responses don't tend to be bright. If you found something that sounds different, it's either producing the music inaccurately or the comparison between the products was sighted/not volume matched and thus very bias prone or highly inaccurate respectively.
 
As for distortion, I'm not referring to blatantly audible distortion, more uncomfortably high THD, that sort of thing. Oversampling allows us to overcome the huge limitations of NOS DACs, so any 'true' NOS products are simply dodgy design.

What about the analog side? If you're implying digital is digital (if done well enough).
 
 

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

What about the analog side? If you're implying digital is digital (if done well enough). 

What do you mean? The analog signal is what is measured.

 

[Willakan]

Not saying digital is digital at all, nor do I particularly want a debate. However, when people start asking for DAC recommendations, I like to give the more objective side of things, in the same way as other people will recommend DACs which to my mind appear to have been designed by a monkey (not a reference to any of the above particularly, just a general observation.)
 
I don't think all digital devices are of perfect fidelity, but when you have something so stupidly far across the limits of audibility as the Benchmark it seems strange that what's actually on the recording supposedly sounds so terrible.

 

[tim3320070]

I'm not sure how to respond other than having a Ref-1/Ref-8 dac improved things more than I could have expected and the only difference I can see between dacs like those and a VDAC (previously owned) is the crazy power supply and filtering AGD uses (which the DAC-1 lacks in comparison). So I guess that's what I mean when I say (probably incorrectly), the analog side. Feel free to correct my understanding of things as I am going from ear/eye not a science background.
The OP stated holography and that's what I think when listening through above mentioned dacs- 3D-like sound.

 

[oculus]

audio-gd nfb-8 gets my thumbs up for all the things you seek.  It isn't the holy grail but its mighty close!

 

[Head Injury]

I've not heard a difference in soundstage between neutral DACs. I'm not sure how it's even possible for a DAC to improve soundstage without coloration, or if the previous DAC had really excessive noise and THD or something.

 

[Dynobot]

What about:
 
Cables
Speakers
Speaker placement
Quality of recording
Source machine
Preamp
Amp
Room Acoustics
Headphones
 
Or does everything fall on the Dac in your minds?
 
Assuming you have gear capable of throwing a good soundstage in the first place.
 
I guess this whole thread is hypothetical in the first place, so it really does not matter. The sensation of hearing is subjective anyways, I can no more tell you that you do not hear perfect holography than I can tell you that you do not taste, see, smell or feel something.  And then there are measurements, which prove you hear or can not hear something no matter what you say....lol.

 

[Head Injury]

Quote:

What about:
 
Cables
Speakers
Speaker placement
Quality of recording
Source machine
Preamp
Amp
Room Acoustics
Headphones
 
Or does everything fall on the Dac in your minds?
 
Assuming you have gear capable of throwing a good soundstage in the first place.
 
I guess this whole thread is hypothetical in the first place, so it really does not matter. The sensation of hearing is subjective anyways, I can no more tell you that you do not hear perfect holography than I can tell you that you do not taste, see, smell or feel something.  And then there are measurements, which prove you hear or can not hear something no matter what you say....lol.

What do you mean "everything fall on the DAC"? The DAC is exactly what the OP is asking for.
 
As for your list, headphones, speakers speaker placement, room acoustics, and recording matter. DAC and amp might matter in very extreme cases, i.e. colored gear or heavy distortion/noise that's burying psychoacoustic cues, but moving from an adequate DAC to a $5000 DAC isn't going to do anything but make you think it sounds better.

 

[Il Mostro]

Quote:

I also liked the PS Audio DL3 with the Halide bridge as a transport from the computer.  You can find used DL3 s fairly easily.  

If going the DLIII route, by all means check out the version with Cullen Level IV upgrades.  It is entirely new ballgame compared to the stock model.