[Zorlac]

Good info...even though I have no idea if it is correct or not, but I trust ya

So that answers cafe zeenuts's question.

I guess my only confusion then is if Quote:

dynamic range: 109dB @ 48kHz (A-weighted)

, then is it possible to have a dynamic range @ 96kHz or 192kHz? Most supposed 24bit sources I have seen are always at 96 or 192kHz.

Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding.

I do have to comment that M-Audio's marketing is a little shady if they are advertising the card as 24bit 192kHz, yet it cannot output this to an external DAC via SPDIF.


EDIT: Wait a sec! You are talking about analog output with the assumption that the M-Audio card DAC is being used right?? Cafe Zeenuts and I are talking about the M-Audio card sending the source untouched via digital SPDIF to an external DAC. Shouldnt the card be able to bitstream the 24bit 192kHz source file to his external DAC via optical or coax SPDIF??? What happens after that point is not the issue he brought up. He simply wants to know if his sound card is transferring everything from his source file digitally to his external DAC.

 

[linuxworks]

ah, he's talking about actual resolution expressed in bits. that's fine and I agree - I've seen saying all along that having even a good honest clean 20bits is hard to do, let alone the true analog output if all 24 bits were valid and not noise bits in the lower few.

this is also why I think that the HD audio formats are laughable as we are not REALLY even up to true 24 bits of analog, yet. not really. so there is zero need for 'true-hd' encoding when we can't even really do 24 bits in stereo properly (at home).

still, it will confuse people to talk about bits of resolution when the output is analog

 

[Kees]

Aqvox?

 

[Zorlac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kees /img/forum/go_quote.gif Aqvox?

Wow! Looks very very interesting! ...and only $2000USD ...ugh

 

[cafe zeenuts]

Quote:

Originally Posted by linuxworks /img/forum/go_quote.gif ah, he's talking about actual resolution expressed in bits. that's fine and I agree - I've seen saying all along that having even a good honest clean 20bits is hard to do, let alone the true analog output if all 24 bits were valid and not noise bits in the lower few. this is also why I think that the HD audio formats are laughable as we are not REALLY even up to true 24 bits of analog, yet. not really. so there is zero need for 'true-hd' encoding when we can't even really do 24 bits in stereo properly (at home). still, it will confuse people to talk about bits of resolution when the output is analog

Not sure what you're trying to say here. But your talking about analog output right? If so, analog has nothing to do with word width (bits).

I'm just trying to find out if the Audiophile 192 is able to output digital data @ 24bit to my DAC. I know that it is capable of sending 192Khz sampling rate but still not sure on the word width (bits).

Its seem that at this stage, i feel that it can only output 20bit max according to my DAC.

 

[cafe zeenuts]

Is there a such thing as 20bit 192Khz??? Or Am i missing something here???

 

[gregorio]

There is of course a major point to take into consideration about how many bits worth of resolution your DAC is able to output. Namely, no commercial recording on the market (in any format!!) has more than 10bits worth of dynamic range. So on a CD you have 6 or so bits worth of noise and in a 24bit format there are 14 or so bits worth of noise. Bare in mind that 10bits worth of actual music is the absolute maximum, many genres and recordings only have 2 or 3bits worth. For the full 10bits worth you will need to get a really well recorded CD of a large symphony orchestra playing a very dynamic symphony, pop music rarely uses more than 4 or 5bits. So, in light of this information two facts should jump out at you: 1. A DAC that outputs 18bits worth of resolution is more than enough for any recording on the market and 2. You are completely wasting your time with 24bit recrodings as even the most dynamic of recordings gets no where near the potential of even a 16bit CD. All you are downloading is just an additional 8bits worth of noise!

Lastly, the full dynamic potential of CD will never be realised!! Think about it for a minute, 16bits (using modern noise shaped dither) can give a dynamic range of up to 120dB. Baring in mind that hearing damage can occur at a starting point of about 85dB, putting out a recording with 120dB dynamic range could easily be construed as a dangerous product. The 144dB full dynamic range of 24bit, will without doubt at the very least cause severe and permanent hearing damage. At the worst it could kill you outright! No one in their right mind would release such a dangerous product so audio products never have a dynamic range greater than 60dB. This is true of 50 year old LPs, CDs, DAT, Film and every other audio media format ever made or invented. There are some positive uses for 24bit audio but this is in the creation of music, not it's playback.

BTW, it's not just consumer DACs that can't output 24bits of resolution, no professional DAC can either. As I said above though, it's all academic anyway as no music even uses 16bits worth of output resolution.

If the card is just passing the digital data to an external DAC then it should be passing the 24bit file unchanged to the DAC.

 

[Zorlac]

Good info!

CZ - I would send an email to M-Audio and ask them why your card is not communicating 24bits in the SPDIF bitstream. It might actually be transferring all 24bits, but for some reason your external DAC is reading the bitstream data as <= 20 bits.

 

[cafe zeenuts]

I Just got a email from M-Audio Australia and they reckons that the audiophile 192 s/pdif can only output 24bit 96Khz???

But according to M-Audio Tech Support USA it can output 24bit 192Khz from s/pdif...

It seems that no one knows for sure......