[woodytone]

ok, i'm going crazy here trying to figure out what a DAC is for. i'm probably not even in the right forum. whatever. so after a long furstrating search to find information with finding nothing more than a definition, i'm just going to come right out and ask the question "what is a DAC for? what does it do? why would i need it, ect." i know it stands for Digital Analog converter. that much i discovered. I have a cd source, a headphone amp, and a pair of headphones which work perfectly fine. why in god's name would i need a DAC?

 

[hugz]

Music on CDs or mp3s etc are stored digitally. They're all bits. 1s and 0s.

This is fine for storage, but speakers and amplifiers both work with electrical represenations of SOUND WAVES which are analogue

A DAC converts the 1s and 0s on the CD/mp3/whatever to electrical versions of the sound waves. An amplifier is able to increase this electrical signal (make it louder). How would an amplifier increase digital signal (make the 1s and 0s bigger? doesn't work). Thus, an amplifier needs the music to be in analogue to work)

A speaker has a coil of wire in it which moves back and forth when an electrical signal is applied to it. Thus, the speaker also needs an analogue signal in order for it to work.

In summary, music is stored on CD in a convenient format of 1s and 0s. In order to turn this music-information into a signal which is able to be amplified and then played with a speaker, it needs to be converted to an analogue signal. And that's what a DAC does. It turns the information on your CD/Mp3 into analogue signal

edit:

so you ask.. you already have a CD player, an amp and headphones.. so why do would need a DAC?

The answer? you already have one! there is a DAC located inside your cd player! A cd player has 2 main components: the "transport" (the bit that reads the 1s and 0s off the CD), and the "DAC" (the bit that converts the 1s and 0s to analogue signal to be sent to the amplifier)

Some people use dedicated/external DACs. These are simply DACs housed in a different box that can be connected to the "digital out" of the CD player. As the name may suggest, a "digital out" is an output which outputs digital data (ie data that hasn't been put through the CD player's DAC yet). In this situation, the CD player is simply acting as a "transport" (the DAC isn't being used) and instead the digital information is being sent to a separate DAC which will convert it to analogue to then be sent to an amplifier

So why would someone want this? Well maybe their CD player doesn't sound good enough, but they think the transport in it is okay. So instead of going out and buying a new CD player (thus replacing both the transport and the DAC) they simply buy a DAC and connect it to the CD player's digital out. Therefore they get to keep the good transport in the old CD player, while getting a better DAC. This is cheaper than buying a whole new CD player.

Also, a DAC can be connected to a computer which has a digital out. Most computer soundcards contain a DAC but it's usually pretty cheap and crap.. so basically the only way to get GOOD sound out of a computer is to connect it to a DAC somehow. You can see from my signature that I connect my laptop to a DAC by using a USB converter (click the link in my sig that looks like ">" to see how it looks). This dac then connects to my amp which connects to my speakers. The computer holds digital information (mp3s) which it sends to my DAC via USB. my DAC converts the mp3 data to analogue signal which my amp amplifies and then my speakers play

 

[garthr]

If you know the definition, then you know that it converts the digital signal(a bunch of digits written in code) ....... to analog(real life) form.

You have a DAC in your CD player . A CD contains digital information only(you cannot hear or see it), it's completely uselss unless you have a way to convert that information into an analog signal(what you can hear or see).

I'm by no means an expert on any of this either, but I believe there are seperate high end DAC's for sale to do this conversion. Someone like me, doesn't concern myself with this. A CD or DVD player, by default ...... all have DAC's built in. Now ..... you can get audio perfectionists that tell you that this DAC in this player is superior to that DAC in that player .... but for most of us we just buy a CD player with the features we want and not think about how it works or dissect the sound. I also have a DAC in my Outlaw RR2150 receiver, for connecting to my computer via a USB cable. It's a nice added feature for the receiver, and the headphone output is quite good also.

Maybe you need the high end DAC's ..... maybe you don't. Maybe they give a "better" sound ..... maybe they don't. Everyone has to decide for themselves.

-Garth

 

[Sordel]

Just to duplicate what the other two posters have so ably said already, since you already have a headphone amp and DAC built-in to, say, a standard PC soundcard, the real question is not why you would need one, but rather whether you are happy listening to music through having pretty much the cheapest (and lowest quality) elements that money can buy. A signal path is only as good as its weakest link, so upgrading amplification and DAC is one of the most cost-effective upgrade most listeners can make.

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sordel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just to duplicate what the other two posters have so ably said already, since you already have a headphone amp and DAC built-in to, say, a standard PC soundcard, the real question is not why you would need one, but rather whether you are happy listening to music through having pretty much the cheapest (and lowest quality) elements that money can buy. A signal path is only as good as its weakest link, so upgrading amplification and DAC is one of the most cost-effective upgrade most listeners can make.

Some members *cough*garbz*cough* argue that an external DAC will always be inferior to a CD player because the connection between the CD player and the external DAC is flawed when compared to the connection used on an internal DAC.

This discussion is best left to the many other threads where it already takes place, but for those people reading this with no knowledge of DACs, keep in mind that some people think they're a great investment whereas others think that it's better to just use a good CD player. Do a search if you're interested.

Also, since the original poster wasn't sure what forum to post in, I should point out that a DAC is considered to be a "source" component. Media (cd, mp3, etc) + transport + dac = source. Media may not even be considered.

And as a final side point for now.... Vinyl isn't a digital format (the information isn't stored in 1s and 0s on the vinyl...) and thus a vinyl setup has no DAC! It's already analogue from the source

So not every setup has a DAC; however every setup with digital media needs a DAC because amplifiers and speakers only work on analogue signal

 

[erotisches]

Great explanation

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodytone /img/forum/go_quote.gif why in god's name would i need a DAC?

Great explanations here, but there are a couple of good reasons you might be interested in a DAC.

First, upsampling. Red Book CDs have a 16bit/44.1kHz resolution. It's pretty good, but a lot of newer DACs can do better. They'll upsample the signal to 24bit/192kHz. They dither and interpolate the sound, adding ones and zeros where they weren't before. There is, I understand, a bit of a black art to this, but when it's done well, you can take an ordinary CD and get closer to the resolution offered by SACD and vinyl. Personally, I think it sounds great.

Second, and this has been touched on already, you can begin to use your computer as a source. This is hugely beneficial. You get all the flexibility of iTunes, Foobar, Amarok, et al., with upsampling and the performance of a high-end rig. Depending on your DAC, sound quality can be excellent. In terms of convenience, it mops the floor with vinyl and CD players. If you have an Intel-based Mac, you can use the remote (with FrontRow/Bonjour) to control the music, as well. It's awesome.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Great explanations here, but there are a couple of good reasons you might be interested in a DAC . . . . Second, and this has been touched on already, you can begin to use your computer as a source. This is hugely beneficial. You get all the flexibility of iTunes, Foobar, Amarok, et al., with upsampling and the performance of a high-end rig. Depending on your DAC, sound quality can be excellent. In terms of convenience, it mops the floor with vinyl and CD players. If you have an Intel-based Mac, you can use the remote (with FrontRow/Bonjour) to control the music, as well. It's awesome.

I listen to a lot of music via my computer in MP3 format. I do not have the original source for these recordings. The majority of them are coded at 128/192kbps (some even at 64kbps). If I were to use a DAC with upsampling, such as a Stello DA220, would it improve the sound (greatly, somewhat, not at all)?

Thanks!

 

[hugz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif I listen to a lot of music via my computer in MP3 format. I do not have the original source for these recordings. The majority of them are coded at 128/192kbps (some even at 64kbps). If I were to use a DAC with upsampling, such as a Stello DA220, would it improve the sound (greatly, somewhat, not at all)? Thanks!

up sampling is another one of their things where some people like it, some people dont.

It will NOT turn your low bitrate MP3s into anything impressive. they will always be low bitrate MP3s. Frankly in my opinion it'd be a waste of money to buy a high-end DAC and use it with such low bitrate MP3s.

In theory, an upsamplling DAC should somewhat improve the sound of any digital media. However it doesn't include any voodoo to fix a bad MP3.

 

[Konig]

u also have to take note that not all all flac recordings are wonderful. How well a track is recorded depends alot on the quality of the studio and the amount of budget they put into the recording.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hugz /img/forum/go_quote.gif up sampling is another one of their things where some people like it, some people dont. It will NOT turn your low bitrate MP3s into anything impressive. they will always be low bitrate MP3s. Frankly in my opinion it'd be a waste of money to buy a high-end DAC and use it with such low bitrate MP3s. In theory, an upsamplling DAC should somewhat improve the sound of any digital media. However it doesn't include any voodoo to fix a bad MP3.

I figured that, but was hoping someone would say otherwise. I read a review of the DA220 and the reviewer noted that he found almost no difference in the music when using the various upsampling rates.

Still looking for that voodoo magic to cure my poor MP3s.

 

[woodytone]

wow you guys are awesome. especially hugz. thank you.

 

[woodytone]

i have a couple more questions concerning DAC's

if i have a really crappy cd player and use a really awesome DAC will that make the sound quality as good a really expensive hi end cd player? i guess what i'm really trying to say is; is the DAC the defining factor between hi quality sound and low quality sound?

also would a low quality turntable benifit from a DAC. i know this is probably a stuid question considering that turntables are already analog (right?). i'm just trying to figure it out.

 

[hyamaiata]

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodytone /img/forum/go_quote.gif i have a couple more questions concerning DAC's if i have a really crappy cd player and use a really awesome DAC will that make the sound quality as good a really expensive hi end cd player? i guess what i'm really trying to say is; is the DAC the defining factor between hi quality sound and low quality sound? also would a low quality turntable benifit from a DAC. i know this is probably a stuid question considering that turntables are already analog (right?). i'm just trying to figure it out.

It's a general consensus here that the source and the headphones/speakers are the parts of a setup that make the greater differences. The source is made by the Transport (CD Player) and the DAC. Both have to be good to get good quality. If one of the two is flawed, sound quality won't be as good as if the two of them were. If I was you, I would buy a better CD player before buying a DAC. The transport is the original source of the sound and if it's not good, all the sound will be bad. The DAC will try to improve it but it won't achieve too much. It's the same as buying a good DAC to just play 128k mp3s. A waste of time. A great CD player for a low price is the Sony SCD-CE595.

EDIT: You can't use a DAC with a turntable even if you tried to. DACs only accept digital inputs and turntables only have analog outputs. They just don't need one because there's no digital signal to convert.

 

[Konig]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif I figured that, but was hoping someone would say otherwise. I read a review of the DA220 and the reviewer noted that he found almost no difference in the music when using the various upsampling rates. Still looking for that voodoo magic to cure my poor MP3s.

u have to wait from some smart mathematician to work out a formula to somehow recover the lost bits from mp3s. Im pretty sure whoever does that is gonna win the fields medal so lets just wait and see.