[bcaulf17]

For starters, I know that there is a TON of debate on what sonic differences a DAC and an amp can make to a set up. And to be honest, I'm not one to really know or care. I don't want to waste my time going back and forth listening for what should be minute differences between DACs and amps. And also, I want a DAC and an amp for one thing; I want it to just feed me the sound accurately, with no color, distortion, or interference.

That out of the way, I'm still trying to decide if I should "upgrade" what I have right now. I'm most concerned about the DAC, because I have a Topping E30, which measures very well but apparently comes across as sharp, harsh and aggressive. I have had no other DAC to really compare it to. For an amp, I have a THX 789, which I know is also meant to sound clean, transparent, and black. And I also like its design, features and interface. So I'm less concerned about replacing the amp right now, but it's not out of the question. Headphones are Focal Clear OG.

I'm looking particularly at the $700 options. The lauded Denafrips Ares II is the one I'm most enamored by, the Bifrost 2, and the Topping D90 is a contender. I know that while the RME ADI-2 FS is a great DAC/amp for it's features and design, and can be had used for near my budget, I've read that sonically it doesn't quite compare to the others sonically. But man is it a neat device.

It seems that the Bifrost 2 may be the most colored and least "accurate" sounding of the bunch, but still sounds very good. And that's what worries me with something like that or the Ares II...when people say these DACs sound "warm, natural, thick", does this mean that they are colored? People seem to really love the Ares II, for its open-ness, organic-ness, still sounding neutral I guess, but is also not as detailed?

If I want accuracy, then should I just stick with my Topping E30, which already measures well? Is all of this essentially hogwash that will make little to no difference aside from a hole in my wallet? What can I expect out of these different types of DACs? I'm trying to keep my budget (if I replace both DAC and amp) at around $1000.

 

[m-i-c-k-e-y]

Have a look at Audio'GD's R2R-11 mk2 Full upgrade version. Its w/in your budget. Great DAC/Amp for the price.

 

[hakunamakaka]

I have quite a different experience with E30 as it lacks bite and detail compared to my Qutest. All this harshness that you are referring to is usually a result of noisy signal from laptopt/PC. Some higher end DAC's will perform even with noisier source, but that's definitely not the case with E30. Myself was switching through various DAC's with little success till I replaced my laptop with Zen Stream. If you insist to use PC/Laptop there are other and inexpensive ways to fix the signal to DAC

If source is decent Focal Clear OG while very technically efficient is a bit bright and has a peak in treble. THX is definitely not the best match for it, you can either EQ Clear ( In my test taming treble I always lost details) or switch for a warmer amp. But if source is just a computer I would start from there first

 

[Monsterzero]

If I want accuracy, then should I just stick with my Topping E30, which already measures well?

At the risk of sounding rude, do you listen with your ears or eyes? Many of the Chinese built D/S DACs measure extremely well, but can sound digitized, sharp, sterile, soul-less. If that's the sound your ears enjoy, then there is no point in changing DACs.

when people say these DACs sound "warm, natural, thick", does this mean that they are colored?

Essentially, yes. People enjoy R2R DACs because they are typically tilted warm, with rounded edges, can throw a more holographic stage, thus sounding closer to analog. Many R2R DACs measure quite poorly, so again if you want the most accurate measuring DAC, musicality be damned, stick with what you have.

 

[bcaulf17]

At the risk of sounding rude, do you listen with your ears or eyes? Many of the Chinese built D/S DACs measure extremely well, but can sound digitized, sharp, sterile, soul-less. If that's the sound your ears enjoy, then there is no point in changing DACs.


Essentially, yes. People enjoy R2R DACs because they are typically tilted warm, with rounded edges, can throw a more holographic stage, thus sounding closer to analog. Many R2R DACs measure quite poorly, so again if you want the most accurate measuring DAC, musicality be damned, stick with what you have.

Even when using my ears I still want to hear neutral and accurate, not colored. I want the headphones and what I'm listening to to provide that soul and emotion. I guess that's where my question comes from though, how much of a difference really is there? Maybe it would be a nice change of pace...but I just do not know. I know the THX 789 is neutral/sharp too, so maybe the Ares II would be a nice pairing with it.

 

[Monsterzero]

Even when using my ears I still want to hear neutral and accurate, not colored. I want the headphones and what I'm listening to to provide that soul and emotion. I guess that's where my question comes from though, how much of a difference really is there? Maybe it would be a nice change of pace...but I just do not know. I know the THX 789 is neutral/sharp too, so maybe the Ares II would be a nice pairing with it.

An R2R DAC will be a very different listening experience than what you're used to. Personally I love R2R DACs but I wouldnt call them "neutral sounding"

 

[WorksUnit]

Is all of this essentially hogwash that will make little to no difference aside from a hole in my wallet?

Healthy cynicism .... although trying out different approaches to audio can be frustrating and hugely rewarding too.
Perhaps at this point in time we can do the latter relatively cheaply, and this may change in the future...

I do like the Ares2 with my THX amp/Og Clear.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Even when using my ears I still want to hear neutral and accurate, not colored. I want the headphones and what I'm listening to to provide that soul and emotion. I guess that's where my question comes from though, how much of a difference really is there? Maybe it would be a nice change of pace...but I just do not know. I know the THX 789 is neutral/sharp too, so maybe the Ares II would be a nice pairing with it.

+1 for the Audio-gd R2R-11 Mk2 that @m-i-c-k-e-y mentioned.

I have the Rev 0 and it's a shockingly good DAC with a surprisingly good headamp that is good enough with 250 ohm Beyers that I don't feel the need to run them off my ATROX V2.

I'm listening to mine right now over KRK Classic 5s. It does a great job with transients, is very full sounding, very resolving without being analytical. Probably the best 700 USD you can spend on a dacamp.

 

[bcaulf17]

Healthy cynicism .... although trying out different approaches to audio can be frustrating and hugely rewarding too.
Perhaps at this point in time we can do the latter relatively cheaply, and this may change in the future...

I do like the Ares2 with my THX amp/Og Clear.

Good to know you like the combo. It does seem like a lot of OG Clear users have the Ares II

 

[hakunamakaka]

Good to know you like the combo. It does seem like a lot of OG Clear users have the Ares II

Ares II is definitely a very good choice in it's price range and it will tame down edginess from the OG Clear. R2R DAC's are different beasts than DS ones, but I must stress the importance of having clean digital, especially when we play in budget realms. If your source is not up to task your downstream will suffer. Sharp treble, congested staging and lacking bass impact are usual suspects of digital noise. In good chain you can make a decent 25$ DAC sound good.

 

[WorksUnit]

Ares II is definitely a very good choice in it's price range and it will tame down edginess from the OG Clear.

Aye. Given the new firmware updates / used prices this might be time to dip the toes.