[Onikage0]

Greetings,

I am making my first move into high-end headphones with the purchase of a pair of HD800 S. My only prior experience with headphones is the HD650, and I am using a rather low-end amp/dac that I feel will not do the 800 S justice. So, I'm looking to upgrade that too.

There is just a bombardment of information on what to use with the 800 S and I am struggling to sort through it all. It's quite overwhelming. My budget for both an amp+dac is about $1500. I would prefer to keep it closer to 1300-1400, however.

A lot of folks seem to like a tube amp with the 800 S. I have never owned a tube amp before, and my only concern is that I plan to use these headphones as my primary PC/gaming set, and the amp will be turned on for really long periods of time. Possible 12+ hours a day. I am slightly concerned about the heat output and wear and tear on a tube amp. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing?

Schiit seems to get a lot of love. Maybe something like the Mjolnir/Valhalla would be a good choice? I have also been eyeing the Questyle 600i as a good amp+dac combo.

I can't really speak to what sound signature I am expecting to get out of this setup, because, well, I have nothing to compare it to. Any feedback you can offer would be great.

 

[Donamo]

Dam... No reply... I'm also interested. Sorry I couldn't help much.

 

[Rhamnetin]

It's a tricky budget for the HD 800 S which scales so much with amplification in particular. I suppose I'd go with a Bottlehead Crackatwoa with the stepped attenuator upgrade (if not immediately then later on), and a Chord Mojo. Or step it up to a Bottlehead Mainline and a used Chord Mojo. I wouldn't even consider anything else but that's due to my own personal experiences and preferences. I'd try to go for the Mainline.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I am making my first move into high-end headphones with the purchase of a pair of HD800 S. My only prior experience with headphones is the HD650, and I am using a rather low-end amp/dac that I feel will not do the 800 S justice. So, I'm looking to upgrade that too.

There is just a bombardment of information on what to use with the 800 S and I am struggling to sort through it all. It's quite overwhelming. My budget for both an amp+dac is about $1500. I would prefer to keep it closer to 1300-1400, however.

Meier DACcord FF + Classic FF. I still have my Meier Cantate.2 and while I haven't had the jones to upgrade my HD600 I liked the HD800 with this DAC-HPamp. Hard to go wrong with Meier.

Alternately there's the AudioGD NFB-28 for just $800, then spend maybe $100 on a balanced cable. Still under $1000. Maybe get a balanced cable for your HD650 too.

There's also the Violectric V281. If you need more inputs than what their DAC cards have just get a Schiit Modi2 Multibit.

A lot of folks seem to like a tube amp with the 800 S. I have never owned a tube amp before, and my only concern is that I plan to use these headphones as my primary PC/gaming set, and the amp will be turned on for really long periods of time. Possible 12+ hours a day. I am slightly concerned about the heat output and wear and tear on a tube amp. Maybe I'm worrying about nothing?

If you leave a Class A solid state amp running in a hot climate it's got as much if not a bigger chance of damage as a tube amp that has the tubes sticking out of the case so the heat doesn't get trapped in there.

And even if the tubes die earlier (not that I would leave any amp running all the time), you can order the tubes and roll them off and put the new ones in. If something happens to solid state components you have to figure out which one is screwed up (note that a tube amp has other parts than just the tubes though, although barring electrical spikes it is the tubes or their equivalent solid state parts that will die first), desolder, clean the board, then solder on the new chips. Basically, there's a trade off there.

Schiit seems to get a lot of love. Maybe something like the Mjolnir/Valhalla would be a good choice? I have also been eyeing the Questyle 600i as a good amp+dac combo.

Valhalla won't work that well with low impedance, low sensitivity headphones. Not a problem now but it can restrict what headphones you can use later. You'd have to be absolutely in love with those cans or at least hope that you don't get to like low sensitiivty, low impedance headphones.

If you get the Mjolnir make sure you have the space. It's way wider than it looks in the photo.

Alternately you can just get the WooAudio WA6 and a Schiit Modi2 Multibit. And the WA6 only has two tubes to worry about.

I can't really speak to what sound signature I am expecting to get out of this setup, because, well, I have nothing to compare it to. Any feedback you can offer would be great.

That has a lot more to do with the headphones than the amps, unless you specifically go with a warmifyiing boombasticator instead of an actual amplifier that just amplifies the input signal without adding noise nor a lot of distortion.

 

[jomy]

I have the Sennheiser amp for it and like it, but I don’t know if it’s the best fit...

 

[mtmercer]

I’d recommend taking a look at the RME-ADI 2 DAC. I like the onboard parametric EQ for my HD800 and I consider the onboard HP amp to have enough power for the HD800/HD800s.

 

[Onikage0]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. If my budget is too small to do this properly, then I will have to reevaluate it. It's senseless to buy high-end headphones and then short change them on the DAC/amp.

I'd try to go for the Mainline.

Is my understanding correct that they don't sell this pre-assembled? I would have to do all the soldering myself? I'm not sure if I feel comfortable undertaking a project like that.

Alternately there's the AudioGD NFB-28 for just $800, then spend maybe $100 on a balanced cable. Still under $1000. Maybe get a balanced cable for your HD650 too.

The HD800 S I ordered shipped with the stock balanced cable. Would you say there is significant merit to going balanced? Specifically, if I go for a balanced amp like the Mjolnir, would be worth breaking my budget to get a balanced DAC, like the Gungnir? Also, what does Schiit mean by "multibit" DAC option?

One reason I am so attracted to the Mjolnir is the ability to switch between LISST and tube. Therefore, I can make a conscious decision about which sound prefer. Is it correct that I can just pull off the tubes or LISST anytime to switch back and forth? No soldering or major disassembly?

I've heard many good things about the WA6 and the AudioGD stuff, so that is definitely something I'm eyeing.

I'm wondering now if should keep using my existing DAC and just add an amp. I am currently using the Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 Plus as both my DAC and amp for the HD650. It does have a tube preamp, which, I have never used. Would it be a viable solution to keep this as a DAC/pre-amp and feed into something like the WA6 or Valhalla? Has there been any significant technology improvements on the DAC side in the past 5 years that would make this a bad decision? What makes a DAC good or bad?

Sorry for the noob questions.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Is my understanding correct that they don't sell this pre-assembled? I would have to do all the soldering myself? I'm not sure if I feel comfortable undertaking a project like that.

You can buy a (typically used) preassembled one. They show up on here on the Head-Fi marketplace forums fairly often, and also Ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bottlehead...720889?hash=item3b18d594b9:g:9c4AAOSwCJxaLYNB

I think this might be my favorite headphone amp for the HD 800 S below the Apex HiFi Audio Teton and Pinnacle series.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Thanks for the thoughtful responses. If my budget is too small to do this properly, then I will have to reevaluate it. It's senseless to buy high-end headphones and then short change them on the DAC/amp.

You don't necessarily have to spend as much as your stated budget though. You can get an ODAC Rev B ($170) and a Meier Jazz FF (under $500 shipped) and the Meier will drive it well beyond safe listening levels without distortion and noise (unless there's noise seeping in from before the amp).

The HD800 S I ordered shipped with the stock balanced cable.

DIdn't know it came with one. In that case you can skip getting the cable. I don't really change cables unless there's an ergonomic or usability issue (ie balanced vs SE).

Would you say there is significant merit to going balanced?

Not specifically. Balanced drive for the most part reduces noise while adding power but that does not mean that all SE amps have less power than all balanced amps. You don't even have to compare an SE desktop amp to a balanced portable amp for that - just look at the Schiit Lyr.

Not that the HD800S needs all of that power either. Even a Meier Classic FF or heck the Jazz FF will get past safe listening levels and remain distortion and noise free, at least as far as the amplification is concerned (ie the noise could come from the USB audio source and into the DAC).

Specifically, if I go for a balanced amp like the Mjolnir, would be worth breaking my budget to get a balanced DAC, like the Gungnir?

If you really want to use a balanced amp then yes it helps if the source is balanced. That's why DAC-HPamps with balanced drive are more convenient though - the DAC is already wired to a balanced output stage, so using digital inputs not only frees you from using analogue cables, you also don't need to worry about getting a balanced signal to the preamp stage.

Also, what does Schiit mean by "multibit" DAC option?

I don't really fess around with the digital side of DACs apart from compatibility with upstream sources or the file formats, but if you want to delve into it, there are answers in this thread.
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/2065-multi-bit-dacs-vs-delta-sigma-dacs/

One reason I am so attracted to the Mjolnir is the ability to switch between LISST and tube. Therefore, I can make a conscious decision about which sound prefer. Is it correct that I can just pull off the tubes or LISST anytime to switch back and forth? No soldering or major disassembly?

You don't literally just pull it off like a cable plug from a socket but yes no soldering.

I've heard many good things about the WA6 and the AudioGD stuff, so that is definitely something I'm eyeing.

I'm wondering now if should keep using my existing DAC and just add an amp. I am currently using the Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 Plus as both my DAC and amp for the HD650. It does have a tube preamp, which, I have never used. Would it be a viable solution to keep this as a DAC/pre-amp and feed into something like the WA6 or Valhalla? Has there been any significant technology improvements on the DAC side in the past 5 years that would make this a bad decision? What makes a DAC good or bad?

Depending on how the D1 Plus is wired you might actually have been using it all along. If it's a tube gain stage on its preamp stage then that's what's feeding a signal to the headphone amp's output stage, ie, the preamp isn't just an output, it's the volume control circuit on the entire D1 Plus. Selectable SS and tube preamp output basically could just provide some kind of alternative in case you use these with speakers and don't want the tube coloration, for example with studio monitors.

That said, it doesn't mean all tube amp circuits will color the sound a lot, so for example don't expect the Mjolnir or any other Schiit tube or hybrid amp to just sound like what everyone says tubes sound like.