[hightreason]

I've heard that the Grace has a better headamp while the Benchmark a better DAC

Has anyone listened to both of these and can make a comparison?

Specifically I want to use them to drive the Senn 580s

Also can anybody recommend a superior DAC-amp combo for about 1000?

Thanks

 

[Orpheus]

the benchmark does have a measurably better DAC (see stereophile.) but i have the grace myself, and as an amp, it's unbeatable (didn't compare with your benchmark.)

anyway..... what i think is even more important--do you realize that either device costs many times the value of your headphones? just checking.

of course, the IDEAL solution is to have both... with your source feeding the benchmark, and the benchmark feeding the grace. then you'll have some of the best (if not THE best) after-source componentry available!

 

[ampgalore]

I have the Grace, but have never heard the Benchmark.

I find the Grace 901 + CD3000 combo very revealing.

 

[hightreason]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus of course, the IDEAL solution is to have both... with your source feeding the benchmark, and the benchmark feeding the grace. then you'll have some of the best (if not THE best) after-source componentry available!

why in the world would i buy two headamps and two dacs when i only can use one?

 

[Orpheus]

the benchmark isn't a headamp. look in the pro magazines like Mix--there isn't even a mention of the headphone jacks in the ad!!! and the grace isn't a DAC. it's a headphone amp with digital inputs as a convenience (though very high quality ones.)

the benchmark is clearly meant to be a DAC, and the headphone outs are just a convenience. and the Grace obviously is only a headamp, as there are no analog outs from the DAC.

so, your question is like asking, why would i use a separate DAC when my CD player has one built in?--well, cause there are better.

 

[ampgalore]

Grace drives the HD600 extremely well. It has more power than you will ever need.

 

[md01]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus the benchmark isn't a headamp. look in the pro magazines like Mix--there isn't even a mention of the headphone jacks in the ad!!! and the grace isn't a DAC. it's a headphone amp with digital inputs as a convenience (though very high quality ones.) the benchmark is clearly meant to be a DAC, and the headphone outs are just a convenience. and the Grace obviously is only a headamp, as there are no analog outs from the DAC. so, your question is like asking, why would i use a separate DAC when my CD player has one built in?--well, cause there are better.

Actually, benchmark dac1 does have an amp. It's called hpa2. You can buy it as a separate component from their website, but it's nowhere near the quality of grace or other amps at that price range.

 

[ampgalore]

Have you considered purchasing a less expensive amp? Do you really need the DAC? For ~$500, you can get a VERY nice amp.

 

[Orpheus]

Quote:

Actually, benchmark dac1 does have an amp. It's called hpa2. You can buy it as a separate component from their website, but it's nowhere near the quality of grace or other amps at that price range.

yeah... i think it's sold separately for like $150 (without housing or power supply.) i've seen it too on their page. but anyway, they don't advertise the headphone section AT ALL in their pro ads. and that means something. as a DAC though the performance is phenominal... measureably better than many $10,000 DACs that stereophile has tested.

 

[raif]

I have heard both of them. They sound about the same when listened to on their own(dac+amp) with the higher quality amp of the grace helping its dac and vice versa on the benchmark.

By the way, (IMO) the benchmark->grace combo sounds awful. Very harsh and treble heavy.

As for the amp in the benchmark, it has been compared favorably to a gilmore v1 and the ppa (- diamond buffers) so it isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. It isn't powerful enough to lift the sennheiser veil, but it has a clean, detailed, if somewhat flat, presentation.

I just spent a couple of hours comparing it to an mg head otl 32. Though the mg head had a better soundstage and was considerably richer in tone, I felt the amp on the benchmark was the clear winner in detail and accuracy.

Personally I would go for the benchmark, which should keep you happy until you decide to drop $1000+ on a quality amp.

 

[jpelg]

As a former Benchmark owner, I can attest that it is indeed a quality headphone amp, in addition to it's wonderful (primary) DAC abilities, despite claims to the contrary (mostly from people who have never heard one). The amp section has more punch, and is more forward sounding than the Grace (which I consider laid back). The Benchmark had no trouble powering a pair of vintage, and very hungry AKG K340's. Worked pretty well with Audio-Technica W2002's too.

I feel that it mates very well with the Sennheiser HD580/600 line, and gives them a boost right where they need it. Benchmark seems to think so too, as their own documentation states. They even offer a decent price on the HD600's when purchased together with the DAC1 directly from them. If I was a "Sennheiser person", I'd definitely still own the DAC1.

Think synergy here: punchy source/amp + laid-back headphone = nice

 

[sacd lover]

Think synergy here: punchy source/amp + laid-back headphone = nice

[/QUOTE]



Great point and ditto for me. I use something different but they wake the senns up in the same way. Synergy is often overlooked. There are a lot of good products out there but its how well they mesh together that makes the real magic.

 

[hightreason]

any recommendations for comparable separates?

 

[tiberian]

the amp of the benchmark dac-1 is about the same level as my xp-7, but as raif said the sound is somewhat flat.

IMO the benchmark dac-1 is a bright source with lots of treble energy, good for sennheiser headphones...just make sure you don't use it with a bright amp or a pair of bright headphones because it will drive you nuts.

 

[zum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by raif I have heard both of them. They sound about the same when listened to on their own(dac+amp) with the higher quality amp of the grace helping its dac and vice versa on the benchmark. By the way, (IMO) the benchmark->grace combo sounds awful. Very harsh and treble heavy.

Interesting... which headphones and interconnects did you use?

I'm thinking about trying this combo and it would sound perfect in theory. Both components have pretty much a flat frequency response so there should be as little coloration as possible. Maybe it's an impedance thing?

Benchmark DAC's output impedance: 60 ohms balanced, 1.25k ohms unbalanced
Grace 901's input impedance: 40k ohms balanced, 20k ohms unbalanced

Can't say whether those figures are of any practical significance (the output impedance of DAC's unbalanced jacks sounds higher than usually... though I use it happily with Prehead's 1.3kohm input jacks). From the DAC1 manual:

Quote:

The output impedance at the RCA jacks is 1.25 kΩ and is high enough to allow mono summing with a “Y” cable and high enough to protect the DAC1 from wiring errors (wiring errors on the RCA outputs will not cause distortion on the XLR outputs).

But on the other hand:

Quote:

The 1.25-kΩ unbalanced outputs have several advantages when compared to 15-kΩ unbalanced outputs (found on consumer audio equipment). Low output impedance reduces the high-frequency attenuation effects of cable capacitance, and may reduce noise and distortion in certain installations.

Has anyone else heard the Benchmark + Grace combo?