[chesebert]

Looks like I was wrong. That’s quite an extensive ancillary setup. why don’t you get a new amp first and then you can figure out what aspect of the dac you think needs upgrading.

 

[801evan]

Yeah at this budget I wouldn't even consider a combo unless you REALLY need the space.
Separates are 100% the way to go

Conjecture

 

[Chartreuse]

Thanks for the feedback. The budget is as close to $5 as possible: $10k is only the hard upper limit.

Now, on the topic of separate DAC & amp:

I do already own two amps: the Burson Soloist 3XP & Topping A90, but wouldn't pairing them with a $6k DAC (e.g., Holo May) be somehow bottlenecking the DAC? Even with my Chord Qutest, I found the 3XP to have a detrimental effect on resolution, and currently drive the Focal Utopia directly from the RCA output of the Qutest (which has very low output impedance) with digital volume control with HQPlayer (LNS15 noise shaping, upsampling to 16fs).

Part of my rationale for buying the easy-to-drive Utopia (80ohm/105db-per-mw) in the first place, was so that my power requirements are minimal, and I don't intend to buy new headphones anytime soon: very happy with the Utopia. Would the integrated amp of something like a TT2/T+A DAC200/Weiss DAC501 really be insufficient for it? (Clearly not in terms of volume calculations: e.g. the TT2 would drive it loud enough to blow my ears in a second.)

(That, and the fact that while space is not an issue, total weight is - I travel across continents with my entire desktop rig often - but let's ignore that for the moment.)

I used a Chord DAVE with a Burson Soloist 3xGT for a while and it was outstanding, and now I have a Holo May L2 which is also great with the Burson but which is surpassed a little by my new Holo Bliss. I haven't heard the 3XP but I don't think it's a bottleneck necessarily.

And while your Focal Utopia works great with low power, they do scale. My Audeze LCD-4z, for example, got remarkably better when I went from the integrated amp in the DAVE to the Burson -- I didn't realize how congested it was at higher volumes until I got more power. Same with my HE1000SE, which are similarly easy to drive. So, don't assume that a non-demanding headphone won't scale!

At your budget I'd say buy a Holo Spring 3 L2 ($2498) and a Holo Bliss L1 ($2998), and you've got a $5,496 giant killer. None of the options you mentioned will get anywhere close! You could even buy them used and save $500 (I don't expect to see any Bliss going on the secondary for some time, they're still working to fulfill the launch week orders).

 

[chesebert]

I used a Chord DAVE with a Burson Soloist 3xGT for a while and it was outstanding, and now I have a Holo May L2 which is also great with the Burson but which is surpassed a little by my new Holo Bliss. I haven't heard the 3XP but I don't think it's a bottleneck necessarily.

And while your Focal Utopia works great with low power, they do scale. My Audeze LCD-4z, for example, got remarkably better when I went from the integrated amp in the DAVE to the Burson -- I didn't realize how congested it was at higher volumes until I got more power. Same with my HE1000SE, which are similarly easy to drive. So, don't assume that a non-demanding headphone won't scale!

At your budget I'd say buy a Holo Spring 3 L2 ($2498) and a Holo Bliss L1 ($2998), and you've got a $5,496 giant killer. None of the options you mentioned will get anywhere close! You could even buy them used and save $500 (I don't expect to see any Bliss going on the secondary for some time, they're still working to fulfill the launch week orders).

I suggest we don't use words like "giant killer". I have been searching for one for decades and have yet to find one in existence, save for buying used or dealer/retailer discounts. You usually get what you pay for, but sometimes less than what you pay for.

 

[Chartreuse]

I suggest we don't use words like "giant killer". I have been searching for one for decades and have yet to find one in existence, save for buying used or dealer/retailer discounts. You usually get what you pay for, but sometimes less than what you pay for.

Suggestion noted, but having auditioned many DACs > $10k (including all the DACs mentioned by OP even if they don't cross that threshold) and buying one (the DAVE), the Holo May is dramatically better than ALL of them. If I can sell a 5 year old DAC and use the proceeds to buy a brand new May with plenty left over, that's a pretty unambiguous Giant Killer in my mind. And comparing a Holo May + Bliss to a DAVE all-in-one for more than 2x the price, it's *not even close*.

You're free to have your own opinions, but I'll use whatever language I feel best describes the point I'm trying to make, and 'giant killer' certainly applies here, in my view.

 

[incredulousity]

+1 for Holo May (level 2 or KTE) or Spring 3 (level 2 or KTE) plus Bliss (either version). Insanely great combination, which theoretically will drive all headphones to their potential, and which can sound great with any musical genre. There are many great combinations that can be done at this price point, but the Holo pair is a really easy and effective choice.

 

[Atriya]

Suggestion noted, but having auditioned many DACs > $10k (including all the DACs mentioned by OP even if they don't cross that threshold) and buying one (the DAVE), the Holo May is dramatically better than ALL of them. If I can sell a 5 year old DAC and use the proceeds to buy a brand new May with plenty left over, that's a pretty unambiguous Giant Killer in my mind. And comparing a Holo May + Bliss to a DAVE all-in-one for more than 2x the price, it's *not even close*.

You're free to have your own opinions, but I'll use whatever language I feel best describes the point I'm trying to make, and 'giant killer' certainly applies here, in my view.

Thanks, very interesting. The Holo May seems so polarizing, with opinions like yours placing it above $10k+ DACs, and others saying that even the ~$5k Chord Hugo TT2 is superior to it in important ways (e.g. imaging).

In any case, I'm looking for something relatively light (need to put it in a suitcase several times a year), and a May+Bliss combo will be extremely heavy and so not for me.

 

[incredulousity]

May imaging is better than TT2 imo.

May/Bliss are the exact opposite of transportable, though.

 

[jungletone]

I'm looking to upgrade from a Chord Qutest.

I'd like to get a DAC with an integrated headphone amp this time, so most R2R options are off the cards, including the Holo May (which I would have otherwise considered).

My main headphone is a 2022 Focal Utopia.

I've narrowed it down to 3 choices ranging between less than 5k to almost 10k:

1. Chord Hugo TT2: Not just because it's a natural upgrade from a Qutest, which I use and like, but because due to special circumstances I can get it new for $4500.
2. T+A DAC200
3. Weiss DAC501

Especially for the latter two, there are few reviews comparing to other DACs, and no reviews comparing these 3 (or even any two of these 3) against each other.

Opinions?

You already answered your own question, Chord Hugo TT2 is you go to amp and you'll spend lesser than expected and save the remaining dollars for other project.

 

[Atriya]

You already answered your own question, Chord Hugo TT2 is you go to amp and you'll spend lesser than expected and save the remaining dollars for other project.

I'm actually learning towards the Weiss DAC501 now. Though it will cost me much closer to $10k, it's also transportable like the Hugo TT2, and would be my endgame DAC/amp.

 

[Arniesb]

Too bad you wont bite the holo bullet...
If Western company made holo products you would pay atleast 7,8k for spring and 15k for may.
If Western companies continue to sell extremely overpriced stuff, Chinese companies completely overtake West companies in couple fo decades.

 

[Atriya]

Too bad you wont bite the holo bullet...
If Western company made holo products you would pay atleast 7,8k for spring and 15k for may.
If Western companies continue to sell extremely overpriced stuff, Chinese companies completely overtake West companies in couple fo decades.

Fair enough. It's not that I'm biased against Chinese companies or anything. I just need something light. The DAC501 is 3 kgs. The Holo May is 18 kg!

 

[Arniesb]

Fair enough. It's not that I'm biased against Chinese companies or anything. I just need something light. The DAC501 is 3 kgs. The Holo May is 18 kg!

Dont know much about that product, but from the pictures it look nothing impressive.
Matrix X sabre 3 look miles better and is cheaper. Youre paying for marketing mate, nothing else.
You can add cheap amp that is small and still will be better than amp in that im sure.

All big companies buy reviews to sell so so product in a shiny box.

 

[Chartreuse]

Dont know much about that product, but from the pictures it look nothing impressive.
Matrix X sabre 3 look miles better and is cheaper. Youre paying for marketing mate, nothing else.
You can add cheap amp that is small and still will be better than amp in that im sure.

All big companies buy reviews to sell so so product in a shiny box.

FWIW I've heard the Weiss 502 with the LCD-5s, and it was pretty darn good and easily competitive with other rigs in that price range, and better than the TT2. But, it's not anywhere close to where the Holo stack is, and I haven't heard the 501. There's definitely something to be said for portability though, I have a hard time moving the holo stack around my desk, much less traveling with it; if that's a requirement, it's disqualifying. Which is unfortunate because it's the best stack I've heard at any price, and that includes the DCS tower.

 

[Atriya]

FWIW I've heard the Weiss 502 with the LCD-5s, and it was pretty darn good and easily competitive with other rigs in that price range, and better than the TT2. But, it's not anywhere close to where the Holo stack is, and I haven't heard the 501. There's definitely something to be said for portability though, I have a hard time moving the holo stack around my desk, much less traveling with it; if that's a requirement, it's disqualifying. Which is unfortunate because it's the best stack I've heard at any price, and that includes the DCS tower.

Thanks! The 501 and 502 sound the same (the 502 just has an additional balanced output).