[Aaron Friedman]

[size=medium]If you are using ¼ inch headphone amp and are using the Denon enclosed 1/8” to ¼” adapter you are not getting the full benefit of these headphones. All adopters including the screw on type significantly distort, smear or if you will soften the sound. That is because your signal is going through an additional NON-hermetic (NON-soldered) connection. In addition the added mass and extra layers of gold covered nickel brass of said additional connector creates further hurdles for the signal.

To get the most benefit you should use a good quality connector properly soldered without going through any type of adapters.[/size]

 

[ecclesand]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Friedman /img/forum/go_quote.gif [size=medium]If you are using ¼ inch headphone amp and are using the Denon enclosed 1/8” to ¼” adopter you are not getting the full benefit of these headphones. All adopters including the screw on type significantly distort, smear or if you will soften the sound. That is because your signal is going through an additional NON-hermetic (NON-soldered) connection. In addition the added mass and extra layers of gold covered nickel brass provide further hurdles for the signal. To get the most benefit you should use a good quality connector properly soldered without going through any type of adopters.[/size]

Dammit! I knew that thing was going to become a problem. That is my biggest complaint (really my only complaint) about the D2000. Where the hell did I put my wire cutters????

 

[Goh]

Is this the situation with all headphones that have the screw-on gold 1/8" to 1/4" adapter?

 

[Andrew_WOT]

It is not Denon specific. Many manufactures ship their headphones with screw on adapters. I am sure effect on sound is not as bad as you described though, if any to notice.

 

[Aaron Friedman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ecclesand /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dammit! I knew that thing was going to become a problem. That is my biggest complaint (really my only complaint) about the D2000. Where the hell did I put my wire cutters????

Very funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! However, if you actually A/B using the adapter as compared to Cardas 1/4 " connector properly soldered with Siltec solder You would realize that the crispiness of the sound is lost using the adapter.

Whatever you do not use Cardas Solder on these headphones. Cardas solder is very warm and bass heavy; that is one thing these headphones already have plenty of.

 

[Towert7]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is not Denon specific. Many manufactures ship their headphones with screw on adapters. I am sure effect on sound is not as bad as you described though, if any to notice.

x2

 

[Aaron Friedman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew_WOT /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is not Denon specific. Many manufactures ship their headphones with screw on adapters. I am sure effect on sound is not as bad as you described though, if any to notice.

I wish that were true. You can however do an experiment. Buy 2 adapters 1/4" to 1/8" and 1/8" to 1/4" and connect them BOTH to the end of these headphones 1/4" plug. Listen to the difference. You will be shocked at how much blurring, softness and lost of crispiness occurs as a result of adding the additional adapters.

By the way the first adapter makes a greater negative difference than the 2nd and 3rd. It is exponential hence the added 2 adapters will approximate just how much deterioration your first adapter is creating.

Warning sit down when you do the comparison. Otherwise you may be shocked off your feet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Wmcmanus]

Thank you, good headphone doctor, for that surgeon general warning.

Of course any pair of headphones can be modified/improved, at least to some extent. Whether this sort of operation is worth the effort is an altogether different question. First, is it within the ambit of DIY experience of the average headphone user? Second, is it likely to lead to substantial sonic improvements that are readily discernable? Third, is it worth the cost, whatever that might be?

I'm not saying "no" to any of these quesiton, I'm just saying that I don't know the answers. I suspect that the answers would be different depending on who is being asked the questions.

 

[Aaron Friedman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is this the situation with all headphones that have the screw-on gold 1/8" to 1/4" adapter?

Yes of course. It is simply electronics. You are adding a non-hermetic (non-soldered) connection where the signal needs to jump through air. That is not a good connection. In addition, going through additional mass is a negative to the sound.

 

[tin ears]

I think that if you are that concerned with the likely degradation in sound quality that occurs with the adapter, you should also be even more concerned about the likely degradation that occurs between the socket and plug, whatever size that may be-1/8th or 1/4.

If you hardwire the cans directly to the amp output, no degradation of any kind, will occur.

If you are happy with your headphones, amp, and cable, this is the route to pursue, to take things to the next/final level of refinement.

 

[Aaron Friedman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Thank you, good headphone doctor, for that surgeon general warning. Of course any pair of headphones can be modified/improved, at least to some extent. Whether this sort of operation is worth the effort is an altogether different question. First, is it within the ambit of DIY experience of the average headphone user? Second, is it likely to lead to substantial sonic improvements that are readily discernable? Third, is it worth the cost, whatever that might be? I'm not saying "no" to any of these quesiton, I'm just saying that I don't know the answers. I suspect that the answers would be different depending on who is being asked the questions.

All are great questions. The answer is a resounding yes to all your questions. It probably cost a total of $30 to put a Cardas rhodium 1/4" plug. The plug itself can be purchased for $18 or so.

You can simply do the experiment I suggested above and return the connectors to Radio shack once your experiment is done. That should convince you one way or another whether it is worth doing it.

"You can however do an experiment. Buy 2 adapters 1/4" to 1/8" and 1/8" to 1/4" and connect them BOTH to the end of these headphones 1/4" plug. Listen to the difference. You will be shocked at how much blurring, softness and lost of crispiness occurs as a result of adding the additional adapters.

By the way the first adapter makes a greater negative difference than the 2nd and 3rd. It is exponential hence the added 2 adapters will approximate just how much deterioration your first adapter is creating.
"

 

[senns&nonsense]

Is the degradation the same with regular adapters or is the point that the screw-on types are more of a problem? Thanks.

 

[Aaron Friedman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tin ears /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think that if you are that concerned with the likely degradation in sound quality that occurs with the adapter, you should also be even more concerned about the likely degradation that occurs between the socket and plug, whatever size that may be-1/8th or 1/4. If you hardwire the cans directly to the amp output, no degradation of any kind, will occur. If you are happy with your headphones, amp, and cable, this is the route to pursue, to take things to the next/final level of refinement.

Yes you can improve things further by removing the IEs from the signal path. However, it is very impractical. What if you need to use your headphone both on your portable and home gear or simply on different home gear components (which is my case)? Some people tend to move their gear around. Also what if you need to send a component for repair?

If you really want to know the ultimate is to use ultra-Sonic welding not solder to attach the wire to other components. However, an ultra-sonic welder runs 30K or so. Hence it is expensive.

In summary, there are things we can do with reasonable practical consequences both on financial bases and as compared to how most of us use these components. There are other things that just are totally impractical either on a financial or based on the way most of us use our audio gear.

 

[Aaron Friedman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by senns&nonsense /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is the degradation the same with regular adapters or is the point that the screw-on types are more of a problem? Thanks.

Regular adapters are a bit worse. That is because screw-ons usually provide a tighter fit.

 

[Nebby]

I thought it was common knowledge that any adapter will have an effect on sound? It's up to the individual user to decide if it's worth it or not to modify their headphones or get them modified by someone. As with nearly everything in the realm of audio, it's rather subjective