[Spyro]

   
The main trouble with custom tips is actually getting them made for anything that's deep fit or that has a special barrel/tip mount - and that they will have undefined insertion depth which cannot be changed. Even targeting something like "reference plane" is not quite possible given only an impression and not an x-ray picture. You can often guess right, but that is not certain.
And in-ears are designed for various insertion depths or rather residual ear canal volumes.
 
Custom tips tend to have neither horn nor reverse horn effect.

 
Special barrel/tip mount?  What does that mean?  It's a custom?
 
I know X-ray technology is available now but I much prefer impressions because its the actual live 3D thing!    It's a case where technology (x-ray) goes backwards in assuring a perfect fit.  IMHO.

 

[krismusic]

I know X-ray technology is available now but I much prefer impressions because its the actual live 3D thing!    It's a case where technology (x-ray) goes backwards in assuring a perfect fit.  IMHO.

I think that would only be true if 3D scanning proves to have a higher fail rate than impressions. There are many people on here who have had to have refits using conventional methods.
3D scanning is in its infancy and I imagine we will see profound development of the technology.

 

[castleofargh]

in the long run a scan will be better, there is zero doubt about it. injecting some stuff into the ear adds pressure to the inner canal, possibly changing the relaxed shape of some parts of the ear. then the mold is a negative of the ear, that is in turn made into a positive cast that is used to make the shell if the IEM. adding more possible errors.
more modern stuff will scan the mold (UE does that I believe?) so in theory it's limiting problems, but in fact no 3d scan is perfect and some guy will often have to complete the mesh on the computer by himself. living the human intervention is necessary, but also prevents from getting a 100% identical reproduction so it's still not the ultimate way, and shells are as good as the guy doing them(clearly the most important factor to this day).
 
a good system to scan the ear directly would lead to the same problems, but still remove a few steps and chances to mess up. so I believe it's the proper way for the future.

 

[Claritas]

in the long run a scan will be better, there is zero doubt about it. injecting some stuff into the ear adds pressure to the inner canal, possibly changing the relaxed shape of some parts of the ear. then the mold is a negative of the ear, that is in turn made into a positive cast that is used to make the shell if the IEM. adding more possible errors.
more modern stuff will scan the mold (UE does that I believe?) so in theory it's limiting problems, but in fact no 3d scan is perfect and some guy will often have to complete the mesh on the computer by himself. living the human intervention is necessary, but also prevents from getting a 100% identical reproduction so it's still not the ultimate way, and shells are as good as the guy doing them(clearly the most important factor to this day).

a good system to scan the ear directly would lead to the same problems, but still remove a few steps and chances to mess up. so I believe it's the proper way for the future.

UE went 0-2 on my UERM with the traditional "goo" mold subsequently tweaked on computer. I'm not buying another custom till the industry comes up with something much better. If they don't, I'll never buy another custom.

 

[krismusic]

UE went 0-2 on my UERM with the traditional "goo" mold subsequently tweaked on computer. I'm not buying another custom till the industry comes up with something much better. If they don't, I'll never buy another custom.

You had a bad experience?

 

[Spyro]

Nothing is guaranteed.  My JH5's were perfect 5 years ago and I still use them and they still fit perfectly.
 
My JH13's taken from same molds were also perfect.
 
When I ordered JH16's they recommended I send back my JH5's to duplicate the perfect fit  (I did this with JH13's too).....that remolds were not necessary since it had only been about 4 months.
 
Those JH16's never fit right and they never got them right after 2 attempts.  Actually they fit perfect but I had channel imbalance favoring one side like 60/40.  Drove me crazy and when you are spending $1300 anything but perfect is unacceptable.  Ended up selling them for a MASSIVE loss and I have sworn off customs since... and luckily the universals have caught up to the customs sound quality wise.
 
I see no reason for anyone to get a custom unless they absolutely cannot get a good fit with a universal.  I have to think that is a very small segment of the market.

 

[Claritas]

You had a bad experience?

It's as I wrote: they couldn't get it right in two tries using the current technology. The full 3D tech hasn't been rolled out yet, but I have no confidence in it anyway.

I don't want to tell you how bad their customer service is because . . . I don't want to remember!

 

[krismusic]

Nothing is guaranteed. 
Those JH16's never fit right and they never got them right after 2 attempts.  Actually they fit perfect but I had channel imbalance favoring one side like 60/40.  Drove me crazy and when you are spending $1300 anything but perfect is unacceptable. 

I had the same channel imbalance issue. To this day I do not know if it was my imagination. I do not have the problem with my IEM's or full size though.

It's as I wrote: they couldn't get it right in two tries using the current technology. The full 3D tech hasn't been rolled out yet, but I have no confidence in it anyway.

I don't want to tell you how bad their customer service is because . . . I don't want to remember!

I was remarkably lucky. I had major problems with JHA but my dealer got me refunded. The benefit of going to a dealer with a good relationship with the manufacturer I guess.
I'm currently waiting for a CIEM from a different manufacturer. One last roll of the dice. If this doesn't work out then like you I will give up on customs.
I have custom sleeves for my IEM's. Initially I gave up after several tries at getting those right. Then tried a different audiologist and they were right first time.
A good audiologist for impressions is key.

 

[inventionlws]

Very knowledgable reply！I was wondering if you could illustrate the horn effect and the reverse horn effect better. Does the horn effect happen when the exit is smaller than the bore size or bigger? I've been searching for the explanation but can get a clear answer…Thanks

 

[brazy001]

FWIW, I have just booked in a time to get impressions to get some tips for use with my UE900. The reason I am getting them is for fit. the shape of my ears are different which results in different insertion depths and often an improper seal. I also notice an imbalance in resonance which I think is due to my left canal being much smaller and having a sharp bend when compared the larger, straighter right ear canal. I think the shape of the canals also affects FR which gives an imbalance that a left right crossfade cannot fix! There are these beautiful moments when I get a great seal and balance that I could even be able to appreciate the crazy frog ringtone. I am hoping that the custom tips will give me a consistent listening experience and constant seal.
 
I am a casual listener and am now happy with the quality of my universals and their frequency response so I don't want to risk getting custom IEMs which may not suit my taste (coupled with a tight budget doesn't help ) and therefore the custom tips route seems to be a good avenue.
 
I will try and give feedback if the tips fix the issues I have and I am sure there are others out there with similar issues, even though my wife thinks I'm nuts!

 

[krismusic]

FWIW, I have just booked in a time to get impressions to get some tips for use with my UE900. The reason I am getting them is for fit. the shape of my ears are different which results in different insertion depths and often an improper seal. I also notice an imbalance in resonance which I think is due to my left canal being much smaller and having a sharp bend when compared the larger, straighter right ear canal. I think the shape of the canals also affects FR which gives an imbalance that a left right crossfade cannot fix! There are these beautiful moments when I get a great seal and balance that I could even be able to appreciate the crazy frog ringtone. I am hoping that the custom tips will give me a consistent listening experience and constant seal.

I am a casual listener and am now happy with the quality of my universals and their frequency response so I don't want to risk getting custom IEMs which may not suit my taste (coupled with a tight budget doesn't help ) and therefore the custom tips route seems to be a good avenue.

I will try and give feedback if the tips fix the issues I have and I am sure there are others out there with similar issues, even though my wife thinks I'm nuts!

Yes. I can confirm that this is a good way forward. I wouldn't dare contradict your wife. You probably are nuts!
This is a lonely hobby sometimes. Very few friends would comprehend the amount of time and money I am prepared to spend.
I've put a lot of effort into using IEM's. I've lost count of the number of times that I have had impressions done.
I've had several sets of custom tips for universals plus two different CIEMs. I am currently having problems getting a comfortable fit with my current CIEM.
I think given my time again I would not go for CIEM's. The most successful outcome for me has been custom tips.
At least with tips you are not risking ending up with useless lumps of acrylic that are an absolute PITA to send far across the globe for adjustments.
In short. I think you are on the right track.
Good luck!

 

[AstralStorm]

As a budding technician hobbyist myself I can tell you the positive-negative-positive process is very involved and I'm missing a few steps. Just making a mold with an air hole makes for a very well fitting, but slightly loose plug. Moreover the impression surface is precise enough to actually contain impression of skin pores. So I suspect all the companies apply a relatively thick layer of lacquer to hide the issue and smooth out the impression. And knowing where to add excess material and where not is somewhat of an art.
Myself I've done this a bunch of times - silicone in silicone molds are a pain to handle. What I learned is that the major source of pain when making those is to put in the air ducts. Extra hard if they should be large diameter and your ear canal has a major bend like my left ear.
 
A few of the companies instead started working from a 3D scan of the impression with the final product being 3D printed in acrylic. Allegedly UE is one of those. This technique has some potential, but it's not suitable for tips. Plus the hard material does not make as good of a seal
 
The sonic differences were relatively small, much less than e.g. with Comply foams. Plus the deep fitting custom tip is even more pain in the rear end to insert and remove than a full sized custom or foam.

 

[Spyro]

To this day my custom acrylic JH5's are the most comfy sounding  pieces I have ever put in my ears.

 

[krismusic]

To this day my custom acrylic JH5's are the most comfy sounding  pieces I have ever put in my ears.

On the other hand I have only ever found my acrylic CIEM's tolerable. My silicone tips are more comfortable. I only use the CIEM's these days though. They sound amazing.

 

[GimmeCans]

My experience after having several sets made for several different IEMs by two different vendors is that yes, they are very overrated. It may have to do with the shape of my ears (neither of the makers shipped a product that went all the way to the second bend of their canal which is supposedly a requirement to get the kind of extreme isolation often claimed. Comfort and isolation were a modest improvement over the best (for me) tips I tried (which I think was every one on the market) at a steep uptick in cost.