[PFKMan23]

*dies* You should really be head of Singlepower marketing...

PS: How about looking over my configuration and PM me some tube recommendations> Or should we just let my head rest a little bit.

PPS: Is the SDS XLR monster sized next?

 

[grandenigma1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFKMan23 *dies* You should really be head of Singlepower marketing... PS: How about looking over my configuration and PM me some tube recommendations> Or should we just let my head rest a little bit. PPS: Is the SDS XLR monster sized next?

I think there are some very nice 6SN7s in the FS forum right now

...where did you score two old body supras from earl?

 

[socrates63]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover Get some senn 600 or 650's! The Singlepower amps and senns are like a hand and a glove.

I'm going to back away slowly from this thread and forget that I read this...

 

[grandenigma1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by socrates63 I'm going to back away slowly from this thread and forget that I read this...

but its oh so true.... cant deny the truth

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFKMan23 *dies* You should really be head of Singlepower marketing... PS: How about looking over my configuration and PM me some tube recommendations> Or should we just let my head rest a little bit. PPS: Is the SDS XLR monster sized next?

Your configuration.... including the silver wire..... is like the one woodcans had at the last Ohio Meet. Thats the best mpx3 I have heard period.

Seriously... the 12 volt upgrade may be tough to afford right now but the upgrade will pay for itself in no time. The minute you start pricing 6sn7 tubes

....you will regret not getting the 12 volt option.

No SDS-XLR for me.... I like single ended. If I go further up the line it will be a 12 volt Maestro with silver wire/ PIO caps.

 

[leftistelf]

Earl talked me into a Maestro. . . FEAR.

 

[squall2072]

Haha! Earl's a brilliant bloke. He's helped me alot and has nudged me along the road towards the ppx3 slam. In my hour of need (and weakness in the wallet) Earl was there! Now all I need to do is order it...

 

[falcogreg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover Seriously... the 12 volt upgrade may be tough to afford right now but the upgrade will pay for itself in no time. The minute you start pricing 6sn7 tubes ....you will regret not getting the 12 volt option.

Dare I ask what is this upgrade you speak of and should I be doing it now as opposed to later?

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcogreg Dare I ask what is this upgrade you speak of and should I be doing it now as opposed to later?

If you are getting the basic SLAM ppx3 you dont need to be concerned about the 12 volt upgrade. The 12 volt upgrade is so you can use 12sn7 tubes in the Singlepower amps that normally use 6sn7's..... like the standard mpx3, supra and maestro. The why of the 12 volt upgrades is...... 12sn7's are identical to the 6sn7 and give you the same sound quality at a much lower price. The 12sn7 is IDENTICAL to the 6sn7 tube but uses a different (12.6 volt) heater voltage. But apparently.... because of the heater voltage, this tube has never had the popularity, and consequently the demand, which drives the price up.

The 12 volt upgrade doesnt force you to use 12 volt tubes.... the upgrade allows you to use both 6 and 12 volt types. So if one tube type were to be unavailable you just switch to the other.

The 5687 used in the SLAM has a completely different wiring scheme and is set up so you can run the tube at 6 or 12 volts. You set the heater voltage depending on how pins 4 and 5 are wired..... in parallel or series. This means you can commit to either voltage and there is no substitute tube for the 5687 that runs at 12 volts...... since the tube is adaptable to either voltage. Therefore, there is no advantage to running 5687's at 12 volts because you only have this one 5687 tube that costs the same no matter what voltage you use.

The gain tube used by the SLAM.... the 6cg7.... is still in production and there is a good supply of nos (new old stock) 6cg7's available as well. The 6cg7 is also a relatively inexpensive tube. There are actual disadvantages to replacing the 6cg7 with its 12 volt equivalent..... which is the 12fq7. The 12fq7 is out of production, is not widely available and the price is nearly the same..... if you do find the tube. Finally, the 12fq7 does not have the variety of the 6cg7.... with RCA, GE and Sylvania being your only 12fq7 choices. If there are other 12fq7 choices..... I havent found any.

 

[falcogreg]

Thanks for that great explanation! BTW, I also went with the 6sn7 tube option. Guess I forgot to mention that in my initial post. So, based on your expalantion, it appears it is something I may want to consider, no? If I understand correctly, the money I save in tubes by buying 12sn7 tubes instead of 6sn7 tubes will eventually pay for the upgrade? What are good recommendations for these tubes (6sn7 or 12sn7) and a good place to buy from? Are there sonic advantages to the 12sn7? I only ask because you would think the higher voltage would have an effect on electron flow to the plate and hence, affect the sound?

I would take this off line but I think it is a good discussion that others may be interested in.

Thanks,
Greg

 

[Glod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover "If you are getting the basic SLAM ppx3 you dont need to be concerned about the 12 volt upgrade. The 12 volt upgrade is so you can use 12sn7 tubes in the Singlepower amps that normally use 6sn7's..... like the standard mpx3, supra and maestro. The why of the 12 volt upgrades is...... 12sn7's are identical to the 6sn7 and give you the same sound quality at a much lower price. The 12sn7 is IDENTICAL to the 6sn7 tube but uses a different (12.6 volt) heater voltage. But apparently.... because of the heater voltage, this tube has never had the popularity, and consequently the demand, which drives the price up."...

I bet Earl is wired for 12,6V him self.

Seriously, thanks Earl for all the info on the benefits of 12,6V filament; I too got that option

I have never met Earl in person, although it feels like that sometimes

.

Mikhail has a very deep insight in the use of tubes for audio applications, but I think Earl has contributed enormously to the practical sides of tube amplification and Singlepower amps. Not only did he introduce the 12.6V alternative to us here, but he was also instrumental in the development of the SLAM concept. I think many are thinking of Earl as somebody who made something very good excellent.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by falcogreg Thanks for that great explanation! BTW, I also went with the 6sn7 tube option. Guess I forgot to mention that in my initial post. So, based on your expalantion, it appears it is something I may want to consider, no? If I understand correctly, the money I save in tubes by buying 12sn7 tubes instead of 6sn7 tubes will eventually pay for the upgrade? What are good recommendations for these tubes (6sn7 or 12sn7) and a good place to buy from? Are there sonic advantages to the 12sn7? I only ask because you would think the higher voltage would have an effect on electron flow to the plate and hence, affect the sound? I would take this off line but I think it is a good discussion that others may be interested in. Thanks, Greg

The 12sn7 option in the SLAM forces you to use 12 volt tubes only. You wont be able to switch back in forth because of the way the 5687's are wired. There is only one octal tube..... so the savings would have to be applied over a much longer time period. Depending on which 6sn7/ 12sn7 tubes you wanted to use and how long you keep the amp.... I dont see the 12 volt option as a big advantage with the SLAM...... unless you want to use the extremely expensive tubes and plan to keep the amp for years.

That said, I went for the 12 volt option in my SLAM because I have so many 12sn7gt tubes. I found the upgrade is much more difficult to implement with the SLAM despite the upgrade only addressing the one octal tube.... and it costs more.

The lay out had to moved around and the complexity has increased two fold. I would stick with the 6 volt version if I were you.

But, there is another less expensive alternative.

I use octal to loctal tube socket adapters that allow you to use another tube called the 7n7. This tube is electrically identical to the 6sn7.... the only difference being the loctal tube base. You put the adapter in the amp and the 7n7 in the adapter.... done. The trouble is finding someone to make you some. The guy who builds them for me works and goes to school full time. He cant crank out more than 3-5 a week and he is way backed up. Now since you only need one he may do this for you. I will give you a pm with the info. I am not connected with him in any way except I talked him into building these for me. The idea worked out better than I ever imagined..... and people who pm me with questions can tell you.... I suggest this often as a way around high tube prices.

The loctal 7n7 cost around $7-8 each. I recommend the short bottle gta plate type. There is a tall bottle gt type but they dont hold up. I may have got a bad batch of the tall bottle 7n7's but the short bottles are indestructable. This short bottle tube is better than any new production 6sn7 and I prefer this tube to all but the very best 6sn7's.

There is a 12 volt version of this 7n7 tube called the 14n7. This is actually my favorite tube. The 14n7's are all made with an extra support rod and I have had none of the reliability issues I had with the tall bottle 7n7's. The tall bottle 14n7 types are true 6sn7/vt231 equivalents. The short bottle 14n7's have true gt type plate construction. I use the 12 volt option along with the tube socket adapters in this instance.... to use the 14n7 tubes. The 14n7's can be harder to find. But I paid $2.25 -3 each when I did find them.

I put a lot of information out there, so if I confused you somewhere along the line, feel free to ask for a clarification.

 

[BillyC]

Alright, I have to jump in here too.

My MPX3 with 6SN7s will be arriving shortly from Mikhail to replace my PPX3-6SN7. Right now I've only got EH tubes and and a set of early 50s RCAs. I'm a noob to tube gear but I love it's sound. The EH tubes sound better to me than the RCAs so I've continued to use them because of tube cost, but the 7n7 and the ability to truely tube roll sounds interesting. SACD lover, I'd love to have your adapter contact info as well though I probably wouldn't get in touch with him until the new year after I've settled into the sound of the MPX3.

Also, where are some good places to go for 7n7s online? I've gone through some of the links in the tube FAQ and there seems to be little selection from the sites that offer them, although the prices is excellent compared to 6SN7s

If you can't help with an adapter, no problem. I'll talk to my hi-fi dealer and see what he can come up with.

Thanks

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyC Alright, I have to jump in here too. My MPX3 with 6SN7s will be arriving shortly from Mikhail to replace my PPX3-6SN7. Right now I've only got EH tubes and and a set of early 50s RCAs. I'm a noob to tube gear but I love it's sound. The EH tubes sound better to me than the RCAs so I've continued to use them because of tube cost, but the 7n7 and the ability to truely tube roll sounds interesting. SACD lover, I'd love to have your adapter contact info as well though I probably wouldn't get in touch with him until the new year after I've settled into the sound of the MPX3. Also, where are some good places to go for 7n7s online? I've gone through some of the links in the tube FAQ and there seems to be little selection from the sites that offer them, although the prices is excellent compared to 6SN7s If you can't help with an adapter, no problem. I'll talk to my hi-fi dealer and see what he can come up with. Thanks

The RCA's are a darker, slower tube that seem to be preferred mainly by those who want an especially warm and rich sound. But the RCA is a great tube if you tuberoll and combine the tube with something else in the 6sn7 lineup. Most, if not all 6sn7's..... sound more neutral than the RCA 6sn7.

Please note that all the 7n7/14n7 's are Sylvania tubes. So there IS minimal selection. Since the tall bottle 7n7's tend to buzz, hum or be microphonic.... the only tube to really consider as a 7n7 is the later gta plate type short bottle 7n7. This tube does not sound like a sylvania 6sn7gta though. The short bottle has more openess than the similar sylvania 6sn7gta...... but the same good bass and smooth mids. This 7n7 tube is much preferable to the EH tubes for my tastes. I think anyone would find these tubes atleast good.

No problem with the contact info and I will include some tube vendors that usually have them too.

Edit: to avoid confusion I didnt mention the very rare National Union gray glass, round plate 7n7. This tube is simply no good or perhaps very fragile. I have around ten 7n7 and five or six 14n7. I have tried most of them and they all have hum. I have no idea why but this is true of both the 7n7 and 14n7. The longest one has lasted was three days. I would avoid this tube period.

 

[PFKMan23]

If you wouldn't mind, I'd also like some online tube vendors as well. I have also found that the links in the FAQ to be quite minimalist.