cup tuning basics.

[thelostMIDrange]

'properly' ?  they are snug tight as usual. I will not be changing a thing. there is nothing missing. the story is over for me. It only took 9 pages. back to life for me

 

[t-crisis]

Quote:

'properly' ?  they are snug tight as usual. I will not be changing a thing. there is nothing missing. the story is over for me. It only took 9 pages. back to life for me

I forgot you make your own cups to fit the way you want them to... As for me, the magnum drivers have to be held in place by little strips of electric tape stacked on top of each other to make it fit snug in the cup.  Good/bad?

 

[thelostMIDrange]

if it sounds good, it is good.

 

[stratocaster]

Very interesting and promising, Mid. You might have come up with something big.
I was thinking of another possible way to go. What about trying a new cup design? Larger diameter, HE-5-like, Magnum drivers mounted in a  sort of baffle, allowing non-Grado pads to be used.

 

[liamstrain]

I'd be cautious of oversized holes for the gimbals. You might end up with rattling. Maybe a silicone or rubber bearing epoxied inside? 

 

[thelostMIDrange]

good idea.....by oversized, I guess I really just meant, not tight, as I had been doing. Just so long as the pins are not putting pressure and squeezing the cup, which is exactly what I'd been doing. I even didn't drill the pin holes all the way through, so that the end of teh pin would run into the wood, thinking this would squeeze the cup and keep it from 'resonating'....wow was i wrong on that one !
 
 
 
strato, this is huge !  Everything just fell into place. The sounds I'm hearing sound right in every way. When I think of this compared to a sennheiser or beyer dynamic just for two examples I'm familiar with this is so much more nuanced and natural. And these handle everything, every genre I've played through them sound the best I've ever had on my head. It's a delicate balance we have here. Once things get allligned, it is really something. I will make a set for you. Now it's easy to replicate, I know exactly how the cup needs to be, paying special attention when I make them to the geometry (shape and thickness of the walls).............Still need to find that violin finish so as not to ruin what we've got here though. I am confident that can be done, maybe not on the first try. But whatever it is, it will be super thin, and will need full cure time. Imay send a raw set so, to hear it in raw form is pretty special. I've never had a raw wood do these things....it was all about the geometry..all this time i never gave that it's due, never really thought that would have any affect !

 

[thelostMIDrange]

strato, frankly if you heard this, you may not being theorizing, but while I'm a little tired, I would be open to making these larger....so are you saying everything larger , but the same geometry and wall thickness the same?
 
I could make the whole thing 1/4" bigger on the inside chamber for example and still have the same wall geometry...........This would be needed actually to really fit a grado headband perfectly, because as now, with the cove, the diameter where the gimbal mounts is a touch smaller....which happend to work perfect for my little sony 7502 band, but if anyone wanted these for a grado, they'd have to be made a bit larger and/or the gimbals would have to be extended with sluker's shrink wrap method...........
 
I'm just thinking what in this sound I would want more of or different and really nothing is coming to me......so experiementing more right now beyond this may not be the best use of my time.....but keep ideas coming, I am open.

 

[thelostMIDrange]

and for those familiar with grado rs, there is some of that vibe here, but more nuance and delicacy, and far more natural due to the limba. No annoying upper mid odditites and harshness from the mahogany. Bass is nicer as well. Mids are not super airy as rs series was to my ears, which was one of my main complaints about them, but still enough air throughout the mids to be pleasing..it's just the right balance of things...these magnums really do not sound like an hf 2 anymore either, now that they are in these coved cups.....I have come to realize that is a stiff sound....The difference between stiff and alive is hard to explain to by words. But when people hear it they will know what I mean.

 

[stratocaster]

Mid, that is just great to hear. I am really happy to read about you finally being content with the sound and performance of your setup. Commitment to reaching an aim a person firmly believes they can achieve eventually pays out. As you know I am trusting your expertise on what you are doing and hearing. It is really unbelievably generous of you to be willing to let me have a "copy" of your setup.
As for my idea of a larger cup I did not mean to suggest you should re-think your way. It was more of an idea I have been entertaining for quite some time now. I guess this could be a route for me to take in order to find out if these fantastic drivers could perform stunningly in another "environment", thereby also making use of more comfortable (leather) pads as well. I am thinking of a kind of larger ear cup, not limited by any Grado design,  maybe up to the size of Audezes or similar, mounting the Magnums in the center of a baffle. Of course I would have to make larger (wooden) gimbals to fit or use other headbands that could fit. This may not happen in the near future, but I will definitely try it one day.
 

 

[thelostMIDrange]

the only thing i worry about is upsetting the balance here....it does seem pretty delicate...once you start increasing the size of the chamber, I suspect things will change, possibly for the better, but just can't imagine it.....or maybe once the diameter is increased, the length can be readjuststed to accomodate.......I plan on making a set for symphones as well after a finish is found. after all that was the point, to really soak the driver for everything. I really feel this has been accomplished.

 

[thelostMIDrange]

 
made a couple different sized cups today. these are different woods but show the size and cove variation. All the cups I make from now are limba btw.
 
 
short story, I lost the sound when I went to the longer length....the walls are also a touch thicker as can be seen in pic - notice cove is not as deep, so I will pare them down real thin and see if the magic comes back, if so, I will know it's the wall thickness that is critical and if the sound doesn't come back I will know it is the length that is killing it....In any case, I can say this is a super delicate balancing act.................Popped the shorty's back in and whamo, beautiful delicate sounds with weighty tight bass. Why the smaller cups give such nice lows , and the nuance and liveliness, is beyond me, but at this point, I just have to accept what I hear and not try and understand the possible logic behind it..........I may just stick with the 1.25" and call it a day unless these next alterations reveal something new

 

[thelostMIDrange]

 
 
I've experience some interesting things in my life, but this is right there at the top of the list........I pared down the walls to the identical thickness. A touch under 1/8" at shallowest point, getting a little closer in sound to each other, but the longer cups just do not have 'it'. Yes, as expected is fills out the sound and gives body, but the magic is not there......And not only that, it literally tunes the sound, snare drums just for one example are quite different in both cups....more true and natural in the smaller cups.......So only other thing I can think of that is different here is the fit of the drivers....the smaller cups have a loose snug fit. the drivers stay in on their own but if jostled enough, might come loose....the bigger cups have a much tighter fit. I will loosen that fit and also pare down the walls to absolute minimum just to make sure I've done all I can to squeeze out the magic of the larger cups, but it's looking more and more like I know what size these things want to be

 

[thelostMIDrange]

If on a deserted island, still take the small cups with me...........loosened up the driver fit and pared down walls very thin. Still no magic, I think the length is doing something here. It makes the sound a little fuller but it's not even a musical fullness, and it's at the expense of atmosphere and instrument truness. .........these things are simply amazing to experience. I never would think these details would have any affect but I can't deny what I'm hearing, and am very glad to have found a wood, a size, a shape and a driver to have synergy.....Now just need a thin violin varnish recipe............
 
 

 

[thelostMIDrange]

got some new black v4's today. popped them in the magic cups with zero break in - from the first chord on - sweetness !   Never heard this from my older cups when I popped in fresh drivers......I'll bet these cups will make grado drivers sing.  the art of cup tuning is where it's at.

 

[bubuna]

I love what your doing MID!  Was going to purchase wood cups on looks alone but like you said it's the sound that matters