cup tuning basics.
Jan 28, 2012 at 11:05 PM Post #46 of 294
Curious - do you have any testing you have done aside from listening impressions? Differences in frequency response graphs, or anything. 
 
This really is fascinating, and I'm curious to learn more. 
 
Jan 28, 2012 at 11:40 PM Post #47 of 294


Quote:
mythbusters installment #1
 
you can't ruin the sound of a great driver with the choice of wood cup .
 
wrong !
 
yes you can. if you choose the wrong wood and the wrong finish for that wood, the affect on sound is so great even the mighty magnum v4 will end up sounding as bad as the grado sr80.
the affect of finish alone is huge. Not only the type of finish, but how and how much is applied. and where. I wouldn't advise anyone buying wood cups in the classified section if they will be used for the same driver the seller used. They didn't sound good for him and most likely won't for the new owner. the classifides may be a cup graveyard. 
 
 


ahhh, if they are selling them for cheap avoid them. well, I don't know.. no one is really designing cups with emphasis on sound. So I really wouldn't buy any cup on head fi at all. lol
 
 
 
 
Jan 29, 2012 at 12:41 AM Post #48 of 294


Quote:
ahhh, if they are selling them for cheap avoid them. well, I don't know.. no one is really designing cups with emphasis on sound. So I really wouldn't buy any cup on head fi at all. lol
 
 
 



MID, really fascinating stuff you're doing, great thread and I'm definitely staying tuned in.  
 
But it would be great if I could come in here and maybe learn something without reading posts like that one I quoted above.  Chris, I don't remember selling you cups, but I must have based on your statement above.  Please return them for a full refund if they are not to your liking.  
 
Because I would really hate to think you're making negative statements like that with zero first-hand knowledge / experience.
 
Jan 29, 2012 at 1:36 AM Post #52 of 294
 
 
do you think martin custom is wiring in drivers to each set he sells and listenting?  How could he have time for it. Between the quality of that work and the pictures with the setup and ambiance? that takes a hell of alot of time. Plus the edges of the cup might get scratched if a driver was set on there
 


Quote:
And could anyone point me to one review of any cup sold, or wood sound signature, or finish signature?  Let alone the combination of signatures......I think it's safe to say no one except the end user is going to hear 95% of what's made. And he better have his lucky rabbit foot.



It's true that would take a lot of time, but who says they just aren't publishing the results of their research because they don't want to leak a secret? Couldn't they just make an assortment of different wood/finish cups and test them out, find the ones they like and then replicate them? Sure, they won't be perfect, but they'd be close... 
 
As for reviews, I think there are plenty in the "Grado modders go magnum" thread we just moved from or even in other threads. If you want a review of my wood cups, I'll give it to you.
 
lostMIDrange - I do not want, in any way, to discount your work because I would be surprised if anyone out there is as thorough as you are with the cup tuning research. You're awesome. But I don't think it's fair to make assumptions that the other guys are operating strictly with the business mentality in mind... Do you honestly think they would be doing what they're doing just to make a quick buck? 
 
I wouldn't be so quick to point fingers without knowing what's going on behind the scenes. 
 
I'm sorry to rant - I'll move elsewhere or shut up because I know this thread was made by lostMIDrange to discuss cup tuning. 
 
 
 
Jan 29, 2012 at 3:25 AM Post #58 of 294
 
MID, I'm here because I think what you are doing is great, and I am always interested in taking things to the next level.
 
I've got no secrets - I'll tell anybody who cares exactly how I make cups.  I started with a lathe, chisels, and forstner bits.  Realized really quickly that it was very time consuming to keep cups precise.  Especially in the critical aspects of chamber dimensions and vent opening, etc.  To evaluate how set A would sound compared to set B, C, and D was very time consuming, I had to mill all 4 sets on the lathe, which required a vast assortment of expensive forstner bits which were dulling out quickly, burning up my cups if my RPMs were too high.  
 
Getting a CNC built and running was the solution to this problem.  I have a friend who has helped me get this going and it has been a ton of work (not to mention $) for us both.  They don't sell those cheaper engraving CNC routers with the necessary Z-axis range needed to mill cups, so this thing had to be built.  That's DIY on steroids, let me tell you - some of the parts for the mill couldn't be purchased and actually had to be fabricated. 
 
So now we're milling the critical parts of the cups with a CNC, and I still do the finishing/shaping of the outer flange part on the lathe.  Having that provides a degree of precision where it counts sonically, that makes it possible not to have to wire up and listen to every single cup, because every cup from the same wood type and milling program is, well the same or pretty damn close.
 
My finishing process is deliberately kept minimal when needed for porous wood like honduran mahogany, I use as little shellac as I can, really just enough to seal the wood, so that the wood characteristics don't get covered up too much.  A little bit of a beeswax/carnauba polish afterward, mostly for looks but also to fill in any pores that the shellac might have missed.  Not sealing the wood is disastrous for this kind of application, you'd end up with headphones that might sound very different depending on the season and humidity in your house, etc.  MID, you should know exactly what I'm talking about here.
 
None of my finishes are mirror polished, I haven't done a single cup with lacquer or polyurethane.  The only way I would is if I got that as a request.  To some my cups might look dull and boring as a result, but I did that for the sake of retaining the natural sound characteristics from the wood as much as possible, to me that was much more important.
 
Everything I've done has been thought out and deliberately geared toward sound characteristics.  I'm pretty happy with what I'm able to get even from stock Grado drivers, the chamber dimensions I'm using squeeze a little extra bass out of them.
 
I've spent a couple months now staying up until 2am or later almost every night to learn, improve, fine tune, listen, tweak, etc. - and above all I unconditionally guarantee satisfaction, anybody for any reason doesn't care for the look, sound, whatever reason - they can return the cups for a full refund.  
 
So what Chris said before does tweak me a bit, because he's being an armchair quarterback.  I have worked pretty hard on the exact thing he mentioned - sound quality.  My shapes and finishes are pretty simple and boring compared to other prettier stuff that is out there and 90% of my cups have been Hond. Mahog., so I'm obviously not totally focused on cosmetics.  Anyway, I'm sorry to take away from the main purpose of the thread MID started here and I'll bow back out, I just want criticism to be kept fair.  After going through the blood sweat and tears of getting the CNC finally going and doing the tuning work that I did, the previous comment needed to be challenged, because it's incorrect.
 
I'm sure I didn't find the holy grail that MID is working diligently toward finding with my current process, but it's still a marked improvement over the stock plastic and the result of a lot of hard work on my part.  And I am always happy to share anything that I am doing with anybody here who wants to try it out for themselves.
 
Jan 29, 2012 at 3:45 AM Post #60 of 294
listening to  tiger maple cups with linseed oil. the oil pretty much ruined these. quite frustrated......magic is gone and some new oddities have taken it's place. 6 hours waysted.
 
 
 
darren, are you reading this....may not want to use that linseed on zebra either.....
 

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