cryogenically treating tubes

[mike1127]

I'm thinking of getting the tubes I'm using with my Woo WA6-SE cryoed (currently using a NOS RCA 6DR7).
 
I'm interested to hear stories of changes from cryoing tubes, for the Woo or other amps.

 

[Rizlaw]

Quote:

I'm thinking of getting the tubes I'm using with my Woo WA6-SE cryoed (currently using a NOS RCA 6DR7).
 
I'm interested to hear stories of changes from cryoing tubes, for the Woo or other amps.

When I purchased my WA2, a little over a year ago, I also purchased 2 matched pairs of 7236 power tubes. One set was cryoed and the other was not. I have switched back and forth several times and there is no audible difference to my ears. Of course, other ears might disagree. Here is a short explanation of the purported benefits of cryogenically treating tubes: http://tubeman.com/cat8_1.htm.
 
In the end, regardless of the opinions you receive, you will have to purchase some treated tubes and come to your own conclusion. For myself, I wouldn't buy any more cryogenically treated tubes.

 

[Jamiee]

I personally think a good quality set of tube dampers will have more of a positive effect on the sound than freezing them.
(If you haven't already done so that is....)

 

[David1961]

When I mentioned to a fellow headfier I was wanting a spare quad of EL34's for my BHSE, I asked if getting cryo tubes would improve the SQ to which he felt they don't do a thing. The difference in price of the tubes I was getting [ SED EL34 's ] between the cryo and non - cryo was £4 so I opted for the cryo. The SQ with those cryo tubes is amazing but because I didn't get another quad of the same make of tube but non - cryo, I wasn't able to make any comparisons.
 
P.S. BTW, can anyone recommend good quality dampers for EL34 tubes ? 

 

[roadcykler]

Personally, I think this is one of the more insidious marketing ploys ever foisted on "audiophiles". I spoke to a metallurgist once and asked him about cryogenically (sp?) treated cables and after he stopped laughing he said there was no way that the molecules of metal would align a certain way after being frozen but if, and only if, that was even a remote possibility, the molecules would revert to their normal state when they got back to room temperature. Has any cable manufacturer or other cryogenically treated item provided a molecular level before and after photo? 
 
I would guess it would be even less probable for tubes because they operate warmer to much warmer than room temperature.

 

[Draygonn]

Sounds like something Patrick82 would sell

 

[David1961]

Because I know nothing about the technical side of audio, I'm easily led when it comes to buying things that might improve SQ, i.e. cryo tubes and power purifiers. If I'd have taken notice of a fellow headfier to whom I have a lot of respect for, I'd have saved myself a lot of money. At least that power purifier I have has surge protection and looks great with my audio equipment.

 

[raja]

Quote:

Personally, I think this is one of the more insidious marketing ploys ever foisted on "audiophiles". I spoke to a metallurgist once and asked him about cryogenically (sp?) treated cables and after he stopped laughing he said there was no way that the molecules of metal would align a certain way after being frozen but if, and only if, that was even a remote possibility, the molecules would revert to their normal state when they got back to room temperature. Has any cable manufacturer or other cryogenically treated item provided a molecular level before and after photo? 
 
I would guess it would be even less probable for tubes because they operate warmer to much warmer than room temperature.

 
 
Cryogenic treatment of brake discs is something that is supposed to reduce warping.
 
http://www.metalscience.com/techinfo_ASM.php
 
How that relates to audio tubes is anyone's guess I suppose - depends on metals and the process itself. No telling if the effects (if any) would be audible or affect tube life.

 

[mike1127]

Quote:

Personally, I think this is one of the more insidious marketing ploys ever foisted on "audiophiles". I spoke to a metallurgist once and asked him about cryogenically (sp?) treated cables and after he stopped laughing he said there was no way that the molecules of metal would align a certain way after being frozen but if, and only if, that was even a remote possibility, the molecules would revert to their normal state when they got back to room temperature. Has any cable manufacturer or other cryogenically treated item provided a molecular level before and after photo? 
 
I would guess it would be even less probable for tubes because they operate warmer to much warmer than room temperature.

You can easily demonstrate that cutting tools last longer after being cryogenically treated. That's their main business. So you might want to give this metallugist the evidence that metal is changed. As far as reverting state, that doesn't happen in other ways that metal is cooled slowly such as annealing, so doesn't seem far-fetched to me.
 
Mike

 

[Jamiee]

Quote:

When I mentioned to a fellow headfier I was wanting a spare quad of EL34's for my BHSE, I asked if getting cryo tubes would improve the SQ to which he felt they don't do a thing. The difference in price of the tubes I was getting [ SED EL34 's ] between the cryo and non - cryo was £4 so I opted for the cryo. The SQ with those cryo tubes is amazing but because I didn't get another quad of the same make of tube but non - cryo, I wasn't able to make any comparisons.
 
P.S. BTW, can anyone recommend good quality dampers for EL34 tubes ? 

 
Give Herbie's a try: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/
 
I'm using the HAL-O III (which are fantastic) on my 6922's, but any of his dampers should do nicely.
Maybe try a cheaper model first to hear if you like the result?

 

[m2man]

You can easily demonstrate that cutting tools last longer after being cryogenically treated. That's their main business. So you might want to give this metallugist the evidence that metal is changed. As far as reverting state, that doesn't happen in other ways that metal is cooled slowly such as annealing, so doesn't seem far-fetched to me.

Mike

I'd assume cutting tools are quenched cryogenically vs. dropping a room temp tube in some liquid nitrogen. Quenching creates a crystaline structure with lots of stresses in it, hardening the metal. Dropping an already made tube into some liquid nitrogen shouldn't change the crystaline structure of the metal parts. Anything is possible, but I've never read a thing about any physical property changing due to being cold and then heated back up. Someone somewhere would have mentioned this in their marketing materials.

 

[mike1127]

Quote:

I'd assume cutting tools are quenched cryogenically vs. dropping a room temp tube in some liquid nitrogen. Quenching creates a crystaline structure with lots of stresses in it, hardening the metal. Dropping an already made tube into some liquid nitrogen shouldn't change the crystaline structure of the metal parts. Anything is possible, but I've never read a thing about any physical property changing due to being cold and then heated back up. Someone somewhere would have mentioned this in their marketing materials.

Cutting tools and audio parts are treated the same way by these cryogenic-services-firms, which is very slowly lowering the air temperature until it almost reaches liquid nitrogen, holding it there for a few hours, then slowly raising it back to room temperature. I'm not claiming I have definitive proof it works for audio, but just wanted to clarify how it's done.

 

[mike1127]

Quote:

 
Give Herbie's a try: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/
 
I'm using the HAL-O III (which are fantastic) on my 6922's, but any of his dampers should do nicely.
Maybe try a cheaper model first to hear if you like the result?

I like simple silicone rings better than Herbie's and they are cheap. You can find them on Ebay. The guy who did my mods has tried more stuff than I have, and he says silicone rings are actually close to the best if not the best way to damp tubes.

 

[mikek200]

OK->
Question:
 
If you listen to cryoed tubes...??
Do your ears get cryoed???
Liquid nitrogen...hmmm.may have smoked that ,when I was in college.
 
Sorry,couldn't resist??
Really guys???

 

[m2man]

Really guys???

Cryo isn't bad compared to my favorite... Blackbody : Ambient field conditioner