[canercan888]

I have a Creek OBH-11 with upgraded OBH-2 power supply and cardas interconnects but.....here is the problem, I'm not hearing any difference other than the increased volume, am I deaf?

I have a cmoy on the way from biosciencegeek, I am really curious to see whether it's gonna make a difference

maybe my ears are uneducated but does anybody else had this kind of problem? btw I'm using HD650

one more thing, is obh-11 right for denon d2000s? their impedence is 25ohms, manual for the obh-11 says it's for 30-300 ohms

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by canercan888 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a Creek OBH-11 with upgraded OBH-2 power supply and cardas interconnects but.....here is the problem, I'm not hearing any difference other than the increased volume, am I deaf? I have a cmoy on the way from biosciencegeek, I am really curious to see whether it's gonna make a difference maybe my ears are uneducated but does anybody else had this kind of problem? btw I'm using HD650 one more thing, is obh-11 right for denon d2000s? their impedence is 25ohms, manual for the obh-11 says it's for 30-300 ohms

You're not hearing a difference between the OBH-11 with power supply and plugging directly into something? What? Or you're not hearing a difference in the upgraded psu? Or you're not hearing the cardas cable? What are you comparing?

Tim

 

[synaesthetic]

Isn't the ultimate goal of an amplifier design to, well, amplify the signal without altering it?

 

[ciphercomplete]

Increased volume, more stable power and/or less noise are the only reasons to upgrade a power supply. No power supply is going to fundamentally change the character of an amp.

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by synaesthetic /img/forum/go_quote.gif Isn't the ultimate goal of an amplifier design to, well, amplify the signal without altering it?

It is from my point of view, but he can't be comparing it to nothing. Even if he is plugged directly into a source (cdp, dp) there is still an internal amp that he is comparing it to. I assume. Unless he is comparing the new psu, the cables...

Tim

 

[canercan888]

sorry if my post seemed a little vague, I am comparing the whole amp system to say connecting the headphones directly to a source w/o the amp..

in this case directly connected it to my computer vs connected through the obh-11

maybe I was expecting something of a really big difference (crisper, more detailed blah blah), it must be my ears not picking up the subtle difference I guess..

ok, I get higher volume which would be nice if the volume when directly connected was not satisfactory which is not the case with me, I am pretty happy with the volume actually w/o the amp

 

[Fixcinater]

What kbps files are you listening to? What headphones do you use?

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciphercomplete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Increased volume, more stable power and/or less noise are the only reasons to upgrade a power supply. No power supply is going to fundamentally change the character of an amp.

Based upon personal experience I would not neccessarily agree with that. For example, I recently got a Little Linkie V3i power supply for my Musical Fidelity XCan V3. If there was ever a power supply that fundamentally changed the character of this amp, the Little Pinkie is it. The effect upon the amp has been stupendously enormous. I likened it to the change one would hear when changing from a $40 IPod Shuffle as the source to a high-end Sony DAT deck as the source - in other words flippin' huge.

Back when I owned a Firestone Cute Beyond, the addition of the "Supplier" power supply also drastically changed the character of the amplifier, just not quite as drastic as the Little Pinkie though.

A good quality power supply will potentially clean up the bass, improve imaging, improve dynamics, render a much clearer top end and give more detail in the mids. In my book this can indeed mean a fundamental change to the character if it was lacking in these respects previously.

 

[ADD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by canercan888 /img/forum/go_quote.gif maybe I was expecting something of a really big difference (crisper, more detailed blah blah), it must be my ears not picking up the subtle difference I guess..

Hi,

A good test is to listen with the new power supply for a few weeks and then go back to the original wall wart. Then see if you are still unable to hear anything significant.

That said, perhaps some amps just reach most of their potential with the humble wall wart or perhaps it is the quality of your source (Fixcinator asks a pertinent question in this respect).

btw, I have directly compared a CMoy to the OBH11 and in my opinion the OBH11 absolutely and comprehensively demolishes it (even with the wall wart).

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif Back when I owned a Firestone Cute Beyond, the addition of the "Supplier" power supply also drastically changed the character of the amplifier, just not quite as drastic as the Little Pinkie though. A good quality power supply will potentially clean up the bass, improve imaging, improve dynamics, render a much clearer top end and give more detail in the mids. In my book this can indeed mean a fundamental change to the character if it was lacking in these respects previously.

There's a couple of points to be made here, I think. Though I don't doubt you heard an improvement with the Cute Beyond power supply, it's also true that a couple of people have posted here that they heard no difference with that device at all. I resisted getting it partly for that reason, partly because you (originally) identified the bulk of the improvement as being in the bass, an area in which I don't normally seek improvements. But this illustrates quite vividly that what to one man is a ginormous improvement is to another ho hum, because we're all looking for and hearing different kinds of improvement on very different kinds of music. I think when reporting the improvements we've detected, we would be wise to be temperate and, above all, specific.

The other point is that if a generous power supply is so important to good sound, this would seem to bolster the argument being advanced in another thread, by myself and others, that many good quality integrated amps and receivers are capable of driving headphones very nicely, thank you. After all, where else would you find a more generous power supply than in an audiophile-grade integrated?

 

[ciphercomplete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif Based upon personal experience I would not neccessarily agree with that. For example, I recently got a Little Linkie V3i power supply for my Musical Fidelity XCan V3. If there was ever a power supply that fundamentally changed the character of this amp, the Little Pinkie is it. The effect upon the amp has been stupendously enormous. I likened it to the change one would hear when changing from a $40 IPod Shuffle as the source to a high-end Sony DAT deck as the source - in other words flippin' huge. Back when I owned a Firestone Cute Beyond, the addition of the "Supplier" power supply also drastically changed the character of the amplifier, just not quite as drastic as the Little Pinkie though. A good quality power supply will potentially clean up the bass, improve imaging, improve dynamics, render a much clearer top end and give more detail in the mids. In my book this can indeed mean a fundamental change to the character if it was lacking in these respects previously.

Is that character or sound quality though? I owned the the OBH-11 and upgraded the PSU. While the sound quality, dynamics, bass etc all improved the character of the amp did not. It was still a darker, more laid back, almost tube like solid state amp.

Maybe we are saying the same thing but we are just calling it something different.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciphercomplete /img/forum/go_quote.gif No power supply is going to fundamentally change the character of an amp.

The power supply is fundamental to amplification. If your power supply sags or doesn't deliver, the amp circuit won't sound good. The capacitors and transformers you use make a significant difference.

If you want to go further, things like tube versus solid state rectification make a noticeable difference. Same with whether you regulate the supply, and that can be done via tube or solid state, as well. It's common for designers to go through several schemes before finding one that "sounds right."

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by canercan888 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a Creek OBH-11 with upgraded OBH-2 power supply and cardas interconnects but.....here is the problem, I'm not hearing any difference other than the increased volume, am I deaf? I have a cmoy on the way from biosciencegeek, I am really curious to see whether it's gonna make a difference maybe my ears are uneducated but does anybody else had this kind of problem? btw I'm using HD650 one more thing, is obh-11 right for denon d2000s? their impedence is 25ohms, manual for the obh-11 says it's for 30-300 ohms

I bought a Creek OBH-11/ OBH-2 combo way back around 2002-2003. After many AB's with my Grado SR-225's, over a month period, I didnt think the amp was any better than the cheap op amp headphone output of my Sony cd player .... so I sold the amp.

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif There's a couple of points to be made here, I think. Though I don't doubt you heard an improvement with the Cute Beyond power supply, it's also true that a couple of people have posted here that they heard no difference with that device at all. I resisted getting it partly for that reason, partly because you (originally) identified the bulk of the improvement as being in the bass, an area in which I don't normally seek improvements. But this illustrates quite vividly that what to one man is a ginormous improvement is to another ho hum, because we're all looking for and hearing different kinds of improvement on very different kinds of music. I think when reporting the improvements we've detected, we would be wise to be temperate and, above all, specific.

It's too bad there isn't a little emoticon for a standing ovation, because this post deserves one. Yes, of course power supplies, and lots of things, effect sound, but the ginormous improvements often reported from minor upgrades would indicate that respected manufacturers are shipping products with totally inadequate power supplies, really crappy cables, low-grade caps that don't belong in audio equipment at all, etc, etc ad infinitum. I know this is not the case. I know that it is, rather, hyperbolic reporting of the effects of the latest acquisition of the over-enthusiastic. And it's enough to make reasonable men slide from healthy skepticism to cynicism pretty quickly. As an example, and one of the best we've had lately, this....

Quote:

The effect upon the amp has been stupendously enormous. I likened it to the change one would hear when changing from a $40 IPod Shuffle as the source to a high-end Sony DAT deck as the source - in other words flippin' huge.

and this...

Quote:

A good test is to listen with the new power supply for a few weeks and then go back to the original wall wart. Then see if you are still unable to hear anything significant.

...are fundamentally contradictory. One does not have to listen for a few weeks to pick up on a significant change, much less a stupendously enormous one. If it is significant, it should, by definition, be immediately evident.

OP - the truth is that often these upgrades are very subtle and may not even be audible to most listeners. It is also true that sometimes you can listen to a new component in your signal chain daily for a few days, then switch back to the old system and identify the subtle difference. Only you can decide if it is worth it to you. But use your ears, not the exaggerated claims of people desperate to hear their own expenditures.

Tim

 

[zotjen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ADD /img/forum/go_quote.gif A good test is to listen with the new power supply for a few weeks and then go back to the original wall wart. Then see if you are still unable to hear anything significant.

I agree. The mistake people make whenever they get new gear is to instantly do an A/B compare to their old gear. You need a little time for your ears to "adjust" to the sound of your new gear. It may not take a few weeks but you do need some time.