[genclaymore]

Actually openAL does work in software, its is a open standard. It is not a hardware processing only feature.  Any sound card can use openAL thru software.  The only difference between hardware and software openAL is that in hardware the sound card processes the sound while software the cpu does.  Now for X-FI cards the Hardware acceleration was needed to use the X-FI EAX 3-5 or Audigy's EAX 3-4 features in windows vista/7/8 in OpenAL since there is not DS hal..  That is all moot now because some  years ago Creative killed off EAX in favor for EFX which can do all what EAX can do but is open source.  They're haven't been any new EAX5 games in a couple of years now. So there's no point getting a X-FI sound card just for hardware acceleration for the EAX features, Unless  you play alot of your older titles which uses EAX3-5. But For newer titles, Then any sound card is game just get one that has the features that you want.  The Unreal engine used to be OpenAL+EFX With UT3 being one of the games off the top of my head that did it, but after that. They started using Wwise and Xaudio2 in it place.
 
Also today cpus are alot faster then they used to be, so they don't have problems handling the processing of sound like they used to, this isn't the 1990s where doing it on the cpu hurted your game performance. Sorry roller i disagree with you but only if you not playing older titles or older Direct 3D hal titles and games that came after wards that are using software API's or software engines. Because you can wish all you want for them to go back to EAX3-5+Openal. It isn't gonna happen as creative is pasted that. They only include there EAX features still on their sound cards for compatibility support, for people who still play the older titles that supported EAX3-5.
 
Plus you should be going after a sound card that has the sound signature you want if it doesn't have op-amp sockets or you don't feel like op-amp rolling. Now of course openal it self isn't dead as it used in linux, It just more and more games are past openAl usage and using more of Xaudio2 which I dislike when they half arse it, or FmodEX+EFX or Rapture3D or  other software based engine they might use. I not bothered by it as long they do a good job with the sounds, making the games sound great and not half doing it *cough Serious Sam 3:BFE* . Now the only way I see openAL coming back in full force is if creative decides to start pushing EAX3-5 again. But they wont because they are pushing EFX instead. Yea I sure we still gonna see a random OpenAL game but remember that openAL game is using EFX and not EAX4/5 or that FMOD EX game is using EFX.
 
But I disagree to see the as the only sound card you should buy if your a gamer X-FI  just because of the EAX3-5 compatibility,If that gamer doesn't play any old titles that with that function then it moot point and the EAX compatibility should be ignored when deciding on a sound card. the gamer should be looking at other features that matter to them, Not something that matter many years ago. The only thing that has really died is EAX and EFX took it place. Unlike EAX, EFX works with any sound card.

 

[melmac]

Hi, I read through this thread with interest, I have the creative Z since the end of October and I am more than happy with it. In fact I was shocked by how good it was. Now maybe I am influenced by the fact that loads of people said I was mad to buy a card without any reviews, that it was based on the recon3d chip and bound to be a lemon and that old chestnut whenever creative cards come up that their drivers are crap, their support is crap etc etc. So I was very relieved when the card came that the drivers worked perfectly, the card sounded awesome.
 
Now, I am not an audiophile nor do I have much knowledge of DACs and stuff like that, but I am getting into the whole sound thing. Things like moving from headsets to good stereo headphones, the JVC HArX900's, not the greatest but good for a guy starting on the audio ladder. I have good external speakers and a pioneer sc-lx71 receiver, I think that's the sc-05 in the states. The speakers are from XTZ. 
 
Ok, just giving you all a bit of background on me   before the Z I had the Xonar DG installed, but also have an X-fi Fatility. The reason why this thread interested me so much is that I am big time FPS player. CS:Source and lately CS:GO and there was a lot of talk about cards with the X-Fi chip been better for positional audio. But this has been the complete opposite of my findings after testing out both cards. In every game I tried from Doom 3 to the witcher 2 I got much better positional cues when using the Z. I know my testing isn't very scientific or objective but I know my X-Fi card inside out and know how to get the absolute best positional audio out of it.
 
If I was going to a lan tournament tomorrow and had to pick between the Z and the X-fi,  I would pick the Z.
 

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Actually openAL does work in software, its is a open standard. It is not a hardware processing only feature.  Any sound card can use openAL thru software.  The only difference between hardware and software openAL is that in hardware the sound card processes the sound while software the cpu does.  Now for X-FI cards the Hardware acceleration was needed to use the X-FI EAX 3-5 or Audigy's EAX 3-4 features in windows vista/7/8 in OpenAL since there is not DS hal..  That is all moot now because some  years ago Creative killed off EAX in favor for EFX which can do all what EAX can do but is open source.  They're haven't been any new EAX5 games in a couple of years now. So there's no point getting a X-FI sound card just for hardware acceleration for the EAX features, Unless  you play alot of your older titles which uses EAX3-5. But For newer titles, Then any sound card is game just get one that has the features that you want.  The Unreal engine used to be OpenAL+EFX With UT3 being one of the games off the top of my head that did it, but after that. They started using Wwise and Xaudio2 in it place.
 
Also today cpus are alot faster then they used to be, so they don't have problems handling the processing of sound like they used to, this isn't the 1990s where doing it on the cpu hurted your game performance. Sorry roller i disagree with you but only if you not playing older titles or older Direct 3D hal titles and games that came after wards that are using software API's or software engines. Because you can wish all you want for them to go back to EAX3-5+Openal. It isn't gonna happen as creative is pasted that. They only include there EAX features still on their sound cards for compatibility support, for people who still play the older titles that supported EAX3-5.
 
Plus you should be going after a sound card that has the sound signature you want if it doesn't have op-amp sockets or you don't feel like op-amp rolling. Now of course openal it self isn't dead as it used in linux, It just more and more games are past openAl usage and using more of Xaudio2 which I dislike when they half arse it, or FmodEX+EFX or Rapture3D or  other software based engine they might use. I not bothered by it as long they do a good job with the sounds, making the games sound great and not half doing it *cough Serious Sam 3:BFE* . Now the only way I see openAL coming back in full force is if creative decides to start pushing EAX3-5 again. But they wont because they are pushing EFX instead. Yea I sure we still gonna see a random OpenAL game but remember that openAL game is using EFX and not EAX4/5 or that FMOD EX game is using EFX.
 
But I disagree to see the as the only sound card you should buy if your a gamer X-FI  just because of the EAX3-5 compatibility,If that gamer doesn't play any old titles that with that function then it moot point and the EAX compatibility should be ignored when deciding on a sound card. the gamer should be looking at other features that matter to them, Not something that matter many years ago. The only thing that has really died is EAX and EFX took it place. Unlike EAX, EFX works with any sound card.

 
Indeed, software OpenAL is available on all devices, while hardware OpenAL is limited to Creative Audigy and X-Fi cards. And due to being an open standard, it's used not only on Linux but also on mobile devices, even on walled gardens like iOS.
 
About games that run on OpenAL with hardware support, you can be sure that sound effects simply aren't as good when running software OpenAL, with Race Driver Grid, Dirt Series, Battlefield Series and Bioshock as a couple excellent examples of that.
 
Resource usage is relatively a moot point, precisely due to higher processing power of currently available CPUs, yet anyone who goes after absolute performance will want that minor performance hit to be inexistent.
 
Also, let's not forget that X-Fi cards still have a minor but still present advantage due to their Game Mode providing positional cue improvement algorithms that are audio renderer agnostic, meaning even basic renderers (basic in the sense of sound maps) like XAudio2 benefit from it.
 
Picking a soundcard based on signature is a sensible thing to do, but given that current flagship internal cards are already very close to neutral, that's less of a concern. Also, higher end cards like Auzentech cards, the Essence STX and the Titanium HD all have replacable opamps, allowing for as much rolling as one desires.
 
Basically, modern games have improved sample quality quite a bit, but lost a lot in terms of positional cue accuracy, which certainly isn't a good trade-off, especially since there is actually no need at all for that, again due to more than enough system resources being available to process proper audio with little to no overhead. Do note that while being quite excellent, Rapture3D's higher quality modes to take a noticeable performance hit on modern systems (up to 15% on quad core CPUs), and while the sound quality improvements are worth it, that's a situation that would be eliminated by offloading the whole audio pipeline to the soundcard's processor.
 
FModEX is a curious renderer that could do so much more than it does, mainly due to developers not putting enough work on hardware extensions. And yes, EFX is open and works on a wide range of audio hardware, yet it doesn't render in software when hardware accelerated audio hardware is present.
 
Now, if X-Fi cards are the only option for gamers? Certainly not. It just happens to be the best option, with all other options (including Creative's own newer cards) aiming to match X-Fi cards, gaming audio support wise.
 
EDIT: melmac, did you configure both CS:S and CS:GO to enable hardware audio? And yes, basically all Source based games have hardware audio support, just that newer games have either limited options or made it hard enough to the point where .ini files must be configured and/or commands do be added at game's shortcuts.

 

[Kel Ghu]

Originally Posted by Roller /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
Actually, positional cues are used on a lot more genres, not just FPS games. For instance, RTS games become much more immersive when better positional cues, as well as helping with competitive gaming by being able to easily pinpoint incoming units or even distinguish friends from foes.
 
Again, you seem to fail to grasp the concept that CMSS-3D and the algorithms are entirely separate features that can work in tandem. Let me repeat it again, CMSS-3D and positional cue improvement algorithms aren't tied together, they can be used individually or combined, and there is no effect like "double amping". And no, it doesn't do any sort of virtualization, something that CMSS-3D does in the event a proper audio renderer isn't present, akin to what DH does on Asus cards.
 
It might not make sense to you that CMSS-3D and positional cue improvement algorithms are separated, but that's just the way things are when the card mode is switched accordingly.
 
It's quite simple, the Titanium HD is the absolute superior card for all gaming, legacy and modern, and there isn't a single card that can even match it, nevermind surpass it.
 
THX TruStudio Pro has non-gaming features accelerated in hardware on PCIe based cards, with SBX Pro Studio sharing the same features. However, none of those packages have any sort of hardware acceleration for games, therefore no ability to use OpenAL and only basic DirectSound3D features.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------- My quote thing is messed up
 
 
I play a lot of starcraft 2 and dota2, positional sound is very minor. I don't think it doesn't give you an edge unless you are distracted and can't plan according to metagame.
 
That's true, I still don't understand that positional cue thing. I can't see where it fits in the sound process, nor how and why. What you tell me is all fuzzy and not backed up it with any factual proof of it like links to technical/developer stuff. I don't see any real improvement of positional cue without coordinates. It's arbitrary to me. It may sound better to people, but has no value in terms of accuracy to me.
 
I also do fail to grasp the fact it can work together, because as an engineer I can't imagine CMSS or the Algorithm using a sound that has already been positionaly altered to improve it. Original sound + coordinate processing = OK but if you process it with something else over it = not OK unless it's an integrated process, which you tell is not. So it makes no sense to me. No use of coordinates = arbitrary positional improvement. You seems to not understand the scientific rigor I try to put into understanding it. I need a tech sheet, but can't find it.
 
I really do not believe hardware acceleration is better in terms of sound if everything is done correctly. A DSP like SoundCore 3D better than a software? Can't be, a DSP is usually the physical implementation of a software, whereas all-purpose CPUs are not, but you run software on the latter. X-Fi has pseudo-all-purpose EMU Risc CPU + 4 DSPs, but that means software is run on the CPU. It's not hardwired processing. Sound cards nowaday don't need any DSP nor a CPU. Hardware acceleration was used to offloads work from the main CPU, that's the only purpose when computers were slow. But desktop CPUs are way too powerful now. Even the best games can't use all my four cores fully and the grand majority of games make only use of 2 cores. Everything can be done on the CPU, which would be better as it would not have to deal with drivers before all the sound processing is over. A card now just need DAC and all the non-digital stuff. Hence the path sound cards are taking now. SoundCore 3D and other DSP are just there to make the cards more expensive and have something to brand for marketability. I realize now that X-Fi already had the quartet of DSPs that are now rebranded to SoundCore3D and rebranded the functions, they just stripped away the risc processor.

I see no reasons for software-based stuff not to catch-up. Calculations are done the same way, but on different processors. But processors always give the same results, there's in no approximation in processors unless their memory width is different. So it's on the software side that lies the problem. But I fail to understand how they could mess that up. Algorithms are already there. Oh well...
 
THX or SBX don't need to be hardware accelerated to make use of OpenAL or DS3D advanced features. And as X-Fi processing is software running on the EMU CPU, I see no reason that can't be made to run on usual CPU, hence I can't understand why a software wouldn't be able to access to OpenAL advanced features, especially that OpenAl is a software layer. That makes no sense. That, advanced features have not been implemented on THX or SBX is possible, but it's not the same as saying it can't access to it because it's not hardware accelerated.

 

[Roller]

I'll just say the following (as pointed on the previous post), the currently highest quality OpenAL renderer uses up to 15% on a quad core CPU (which is far from negligible). 15% of CPU cycles is a rather significant performance hit, one that would be entirely avoided by offloading it to the audio processor. And yes, overhead is minimal enough to be imperceptible by both human eye as well as by numbers.
 
OpenAL's advanced features are only available on hardware based cards. That's not a limitation of software based cards themselves, but rather how advanced audio features have always been implemented through OpenAL, but it doesn't need to be the case. Also, said features haven't been implemented on THX TruStudio Pro nor on SBX Pro Studio because those software packages aren't simple rebrands of the original X-Fi package, they only have a few features, with basically all ported features not being related to gaming.
 
And an easy way for you to understand the difference between hardware and software processing on the exact same feature is to listen to CMSS-3D done by a software based card like a Creative X-Fi XtremeAudio (not a true X-Fi card due to the lack of the X-Fi chip), then listen to CMSS-3D done by a hardware based card like any Creative X-Fi Titanium card. The resulting output isn't nearly the same, and it's audibly different.
 
And in the event you're wondering why sheets haven't been posted or linked, think of the events that started in 2008 and lasted some time, and the issues that surrounded a certain individual. That served as a warning for other people.
 
About your quote features being messed up, try clearing the cache and forcing a refresh, that should sort it out.

 

[halcy]

I'm in a bit of a jam, maybe you guys can help out.  I have been using a Realtek ALC 892 onboard audio for awhile to drive my Sennheiser HD 580s, it seemed fine to me, no hum or hiss, decent volume, etc.  I recently bought a Dayton Audio DTA-100a to drive a pair of RBH MC-4C speakers on my desk, which now uses the output from the soundcard, and I planned to plug my headphones into the headphone socket on the DTA-100a and use it to drive them.  The amp seems to drive my speakers fine, but does a terrible job at the headphones: low volume levels and it introduced a background hiss.  I tried a different input from my phone and laptop, and using either of them as a source eliminated the hiss when the headphones are plugged into the Dayton.  So apparently I need a new soundcard with cleaner output, but unfortunately that will not eliminate the low volume problem on the amp.  I also want to avoid a solution that requires plugging/unplugging anything from behind my computer, as that is a major pain.  So I have a few questions:
 

1. Is there a compact AMP available that can drive both my HD 580s AND my RBH speakers?
2. Does an AMP exist that also can take a COAX digital input coming from my onboard Realtek audio?
3. If the answer to both of the above is no, then one solution would be to get a Creative Z card and leave my headphones plugged in to it, and the line out to the Dayton for the RBH speakers.  Would the built in amp on a Z card be a significant step up from what I have been using (for headphone listening)?  And is there any reason for me to get the ZxR vs just the plain Z?

 
Thanks!

 

[turokrocks]

Quote :
 
Today, 12:04 PM

#17​

Colin-CL

Administrator Join Date Jun 2008 Posts 50  

Re: Creative ZxR - release date

Hi people,

A new year begins and I have some good news to announce!

Here's what I have for the release dates for the ZxR:

1) Europe: mid-Jan 2013

2) USA: mid-Jan 2013

3) Asia: early Jan 2013


Note: These are shipment dates, so do factor in a couple extra days for shipment, customs, retail etc.

You may also sign up for our mailer to keep up-to-date on this product. 

Once again, my apologies for the delay. I would not post anything here if I didn't have the full information available.




Cheers!
Colin

 

[turokrocks]

Cut/paste from :
http://personalaudio.ru/detail/foto_kart_sound_blaster_z_i_zxr_iznutri/
 

During the 

interview

 , we at 

Creative Presentations

 hyped cards removed covers that would make a picture of the internal map and see what's inside. Samples have not serial, prototypes, so the final form may be slightly different.The room was quite dark, the photos turned out this is not the best quality. 

[size=18px !important]

Overview Sound Blaster ZxR[/size]

Zx card was not possible to make out, as She was clinging to power for the interior lighting. As it turned out ZxR?Photos Sound Blaster ZxR in high resolution >> used as DAC PCM1794, as in Titanium HD! The remaining four channels serving two PCM1798. This confirms my assumption that ZxR rival the Titanium HD, Elite Pro and Asus Essenses STX / ST, and not only Phoebus , as suggested by some participants in the forums. However, after the release of the first line on the Recon3D can understand them quite pessimistic. Picture Sound Blaster ZxR inside in high resolution >> Sound Blaster ZxR photos in high resolution >> OU in the path of the linear output, two per channel as a JRC 2114 and LME 4971, to a first approximation suggests that the circuitry is similar to X-Fi Titanium HD. The changes were made ​​capacitors, now it's gold series from Nichicon «Fine Gold». All grown-up, according to Hi-End. remaining channels, rear and subwoofer to the center served through the PCM1798 and JRC 2114. In this perspective, Asus Essenses ST with H6 daughterboard on the PCM1796 and customizable OS is a bit better, but more expensive. Fee H6, by the way, got up and at least be a technical test. Headphone served with 6120A2, the same chip used in the Asus Essenses ST / STX. Daughter Board provides optical input and output, as well as line-level analog stereo input . as ADC is PCM 4220, as in the X-Fi Titanium HD. You can see that on the board so there is another Recon3D, making ZxR «dual-core." In practice, this means that the effects of the ADC hardware serves some Recon3D, a DAC is used for another. ZxR What superior Titanium HD? First of all its multi-channel output, for Titanium HD is the only stereokartoy as Asus Essenses STX. But for Asus Essenses ST ZxR direct competitor, as ST also can be extended to multi-channel output via a daughter card with DAC-rods on PCM 1796. The second advantage is the use of a large jack for headphones, as the Almost all the older models use a large headphones jack adapter and quality is not added. ZxR What surpasses Elite Pro? This ability to change the OS and using PCM1794.Although in fairness, it should be noted that the CS4398 also top-end and for the sound quality will be responsible only implementation. In terms of quantitative specifications PCM1794 better. ZxR What gives Elite Pro and Titanium HD? This is as good as the implementation of sound and Direct3D OpenAl, proposing instead an enhanced voice communications. headphone amplifier also performed on individual elements embedded in the Recon3D is not used. 

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

[size=18px !important]

Overview Sound Blaster Z[/size]

At the moment, there are more recent review Creative SoundBlaster Z

Based on the specifications, Z did not expect to see anything of interest, however, was a pleasant surprise in the form of availability of CS4398, which is used in the X-Fi Elite Pro. Otherwise card is something special stands. Other channels apparently provides internal converters in Recon3D. Given the price and range of ASUS, will be in direct competition with Xonar D1 and Xonar DX. Novelties more than interesting, wait for them to remain a subjective test. More interesting information about the new line of sound cards Creative found in: 

 

 

[PurpleAngel]

Quote:

I'm in a bit of a jam, maybe you guys can help out.  I have been using a Realtek ALC 892 onboard audio for awhile to drive my Sennheiser HD 580s, it seemed fine to me, no hum or hiss, decent volume, etc.  I recently bought a Dayton Audio DTA-100a to drive a pair of RBH MC-4C speakers on my desk, which now uses the output from the soundcard, and I planned to plug my headphones into the headphone socket on the DTA-100a and use it to drive them.  The amp seems to drive my speakers fine, but does a terrible job at the headphones: low volume levels and it introduced a background hiss.  I tried a different input from my phone and laptop, and using either of them as a source eliminated the hiss when the headphones are plugged into the Dayton.  So apparently I need a new soundcard with cleaner output, but unfortunately that will not eliminate the low volume problem on the amp.  I also want to avoid a solution that requires plugging/unplugging anything from behind my computer, as that is a major pain.  So I have a few questions:
 

1. Is there a compact AMP available that can drive both my HD 580s AND my RBH speakers?
2. Does an AMP exist that also can take a COAX digital input coming from my onboard Realtek audio?
3. If the answer to both of the above is no, then one solution would be to get a Creative Z card and leave my headphones plugged in to it, and the line out to the Dayton for the RBH speakers.  Would the built in amp on a Z card be a significant step up from what I have been using (for headphone listening)?  And is there any reason for me to get the ZxR vs just the plain Z?

 
Thanks!

I guess the Creative Z sound card is one way to solve your issue.
Did you have a budget?

 

[halcy]

Quote:

I guess the Creative Z sound card is one way to solve your issue.
Did you have a budget?

 
Nothing set in stone, but I'd prefer to keep the final solution as affordable as possible. I considered some amps that contain DACs, but in addition to listening to music I also do some gaming on my PC so I'm not sure how well an external DAC would work with gaming.  One possibility without buying a new sound card would be using the digital out on my onboard sound and going in to something like a Maverick Audio D1 to run the headphones, then RCAs from it to the Dayton Audio to run the speakers.  But I think the ZxR is at a similar price point to the Maverick D1 and (please correct me if I am wrong) could perform the same headphone amping functionality and clean output to the Dayton Audio, do a better job in positional audio in games than my onboard sound, and save me from having something else on my desk taking up space and consuming power.
 
One question that isn't clear in my mind, is if the ZxR is going to be worth the extra ~$150 premium over the Z?

 

[turokrocks]

Review of the ZXR: http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/gadgets/1296526/creative-sound-blaster-zxr

 

[halcy]

Hmmm no option for virtual surround sound on the headphone port is kind of troubling.

 

[NamelessPFG]

My two cents on the "software vs. hardware OpenAL" debate can be distilled to this:
 
The software implementation can theoretically equal the hardware implementation if done properly, but the software implementation that Creative uses on the Recon3D devices (and the USB X-Fi devices, and anything else that isn't a proper Audigy or X-Fi with hardware acceleration) is flawed compared to their hardware implementation, such that some games sound a bit off or even refuse to work with it. (Thief 1 and 2 were notorious examples 'til those newdark patches suddenly showed up and added native OpenAL support. Battlefield 2 and 2142 in X-Fi mode can also be quite picky.)
 
This is far from the first time that Creative has changed behavior in newer products that throws off games designed around their older hardware. The most glaring example would probably be the Sound Blaster Pro with dual OPL2s, later replaced by the Sound Blaster Pro 2.0 with a single OPL3 that the Sound Blaster 16 and AWE32 after it would continue to adopt. Games coded with the dual OPL2 card in mind for stereo music might come out sounding mono on a single OPL3 card. (And then there's the replacement of genuine OPL3 cores with CQM emulation that many find inferior, among other things...)
 
Machine-translated reviews are a bit difficult for me to read, so I'll wait for some opinions from native English speakers. Better yet, I'd review the cards myself, but don't want to spend money to do so. (That's already cost me $70 with the Recon3D USB.)

 

[genclaymore]

Quote:

My two cents on the "software vs. hardware OpenAL" debate can be distilled to this:
 
The software implementation can theoretically equal the hardware implementation if done properly, but the software implementation that Creative uses on the Recon3D devices (and the USB X-Fi devices, and anything else that isn't a proper Audigy or X-Fi with hardware acceleration) is flawed compared to their hardware implementation, such that some games sound a bit off or even refuse to work with it. (Thief 1 and 2 were notorious examples 'til those newdark patches suddenly showed up and added native OpenAL support. Battlefield 2 and 2142 in X-Fi mode can also be quite picky.)
 
This is far from the first time that Creative has changed behavior in newer products that throws off games designed around their older hardware. The most glaring example would probably be the Sound Blaster Pro with dual OPL2s, later replaced by the Sound Blaster Pro 2.0 with a single OPL3 that the Sound Blaster 16 and AWE32 after it would continue to adopt. Games coded with the dual OPL2 card in mind for stereo music might come out sounding mono on a single OPL3 card. (And then there's the replacement of genuine OPL3 cores with CQM emulation that many find inferior, among other things...)
 
Machine-translated reviews are a bit difficult for me to read, so I'll wait for some opinions from native English speakers. Better yet, I'd review the cards myself, but don't want to spend money to do so. (That's already cost me $70 with the Recon3D USB.)

 
 
I did own a external SB live 24bit usb and then  much later on a Auzentech bravura which is are software based creative chips devices, During the time with both, I haven't had any games that cause issues that where OpenAL. I was using the SB live 24bit USB around when Windows Vista came out. I don't remember if I played any of the thief series with them at the time. But I did play other games which did work just fine, That did not give me issues with them. I even played sacred 2 with the SB live 24bit usb, and the game was OpenAL based and didn't give me any issues at all.Other then it dropping to EAX4, Due to the SBlive 24bit usb not supporting EAX5 of course. But I remember cleary, that I didn't have a game that refused to start up with the SB live 24bit USB, nor the Bravura that I had much much later on.  The only time where I had a game not sounding right, was when I'm using a Asus Xonar sound card using the EAX5 emulation function which was trash.
 
I saw your thread  at the time you was trying to sell your Recon3D usb, The only reason I didn't jump on your deal was because of it not having a optical out. That I needed at the time, to plug into my external dac, Since my VIA on-board audio had glitched drivers, With major volume issue, That VIA refused to do any thing about. Which is the only reason I  have a Recon3D PCI-E other then me grabbing a used one off amazon for like 45 dollars,Yea I know about the X-Fi Titanium PCI-E (NON HD) that was there,But I didn't care about hardware acceleration, As I have a fast computer any way,Besides not being effected by not having it,With the other sound cards I had before going external.. Because I surely wasn't about to get it new. Just to fix the Issue I was having with the on-board audio glitch. I would had prefer VIA did something, But they don't care. At-least I have settings that I find very useful on it that I use for my movie's and gaming which I turn all off with a profile when I go to listen to music.
 
Quote:

Hmmm no option for virtual surround sound on the headphone port is kind of troubling.

 
Actually there is, it under SBX Pro studio option, You config it the same exact way that you normally config it , when your doing CMSS3D headphone or Dolby headphone. In this case you set windows speakers to 5.1 or you can do it in the Z/Recon3D control panel, Then switch it to headphones it will still be set on 5.1 in windows speakers and Z/recon3D control panel. Then enable SBX pro Studio Virtual headphone setting or whatever it called and move the slider to the way you want it then enjoy.  It pretty much the same thing I do with the Recon3D PCI-E but with Thu studio pro instead of it being labelled SBX Pro. Which I been doing when ever I game,Yes it does work with optical as well. If you plugged in a external dac and have send signal thru optical in the adv tab.   You might have to play with the settings, til you get it the way you want when your gaming.

 

[turokrocks]