[PurpleAngel]

   
The X7 does in fact has better surround sound than the Z card.  I had both before and I can tell you that the X7 sounds a lot better and the surround sound is better.  At first I thought the surround sound would just be the same since they both have the same tech, but it does in fact sounds better on the X7.

 
I can easily understand the $400 X7 offering better audio quality, then the $80 SB-Z card.
(the X7 having better DAC and op-amps)
Can't understand how the X7 could offer better headphone surround sound?
Not sure what hardware could be added to the X7, for improving surround sound?
Or could the improved audio quality itself that make the surround sound noticeably better?

 

[Fegefeuer]

It's the analog part that makes all the difference (DAC/AMP), as should be expected. Both share the same SBX. So if anyone has a better DAC/AMP than the X7 then going out via optical from a SBZ is the better choice (unless you have consoles, then keeping the X7 could be wise). 
 
If people want to improve on the X7 while keeping it then an amp is the easier choice as it's the weakest part. A Vali 2 is probably already better. 

 

[KamikazeIce]

  I have a question about sbx pro studio.
 
I have a sound blaster z, HD800, and DAC/AMP. I always gamed at 67% surround, and the sound was very clean and also distinct.
 
However, I also have an X7 (don't use it on my pc), and in that thread, people recommend to use 100% surround for immersion. I tried this on my Z, and I feel like the sound is mixed together/muddled, lowering the sound quality. At the same time, I feel like its easier to pinpoint a sound. At 67%, I could clearly hear the direction of sound, but pinpointing it is more difficult.
 
What do you guys have to say about this? What do you use? Also, does the x7 have better sound processing than the sound blaster z for surround? Should I just use that for my pc?

 
Edited for emphasis.
This is something I've been curious about as well but haven't really seen any discussion about it.
 
Years ago I discovered binaural/HRTF, and thanks to this community learned the benefits of it to get further immersed in a game.
I still have a few questions that remain unanswered... been to lazy to actually research my questions.
 
Q) How exactly does this (SBX) work? I don't know how else to ask this, but I understand the basics and goal of the whole process.
How and what does this do to the "source" signal, the "final" signal made by a game's engine which includes all positions and environmental processing?
Since games output discrete channels (any exceptions?), how does SBX deal with games that output DOES NOT MATCH your configured channels (Game does not match Windows)?
Some games partially "support" surround sound by adding silent channels, so how is this handled? Depending on how SBX mixes channels, this can be a big problem for sound source positioning in these games.
How does the processing change/mix the discrete source channels as you increase or decrease the processing level?
 
Are there really any differences in SBX between products besides hardware/DACs? I ask as I've seen people say that 67% is the default setting. I have an Omni and the default is 40%.

There is a little red arrow marking the default setting below the slider grip. Is this arrow at 67% on other devices? If yes, I wonder if these different default settings are truly different or if it's visual only and both 40% and 67% really sound the same. I don't have any other SBX devices, so I can't really test this myself.
 
 
Does anyone know of a way to test SBX (or others)? IMO we shouldn't be using standard test files, like for speaker configuration/phasing for Home Theatre. We need something that can do dynamic positioning in real time just like a game, but unlike a game we need to have some control over this. I wonder how processing soundstage really looks in the various HRTF methods. Is their soundstage a sphere, cone, cube, hallway? What I mean is, lets take a lightsaber sound and have it circle us and never changing distance. Let's just say we all think it sounds like it's 10 feet away. With SBX processing, does it maintain this distance? Does it stay circular, or change to another shape? Does it transition between angles smoothly and evenly or does it speed up and/or slow down only at specific angles?
 
 
 
 

 

[thuNDa]

  I have a question about sbx pro studio.
 
I have a sound blaster z, HD800, and DAC/AMP. I always gamed at 67% surround, and the sound was very clean and also distinct.
 
However, I also have an X7 (don't use it on my pc), and in that thread, people recommend to use 100% surround for immersion. I tried this on my Z, and I feel like the sound is mixed together/muddled, lowering the sound quality. At the same time, I feel like its easier to pinpoint a sound. At 67%, I could clearly hear the direction of sound, but pinpointing it is more difficult.
 
What do you guys have to say about this? What do you use? Also, does the x7 have better sound processing than the sound blaster z for surround? Should I just use that for my pc?

100% surround wouldn't be immersion for me, but confusion.
As a former user from the X-Fi's CMSS-3D, ~30% works best for me:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/623079/creative-sound-blaster-new-series-z-zx-zxr/2520#post_11059980

 

[Kenjiwing]

Guys I plan on reading the thread but wanted to ask this first.. I have a soundblaster z and a little dot mk 3 and want to hook my amp into my soundcard so that I have surrond with the card and the headphone amp.
 
I took a single to rca cable into the headphone port of the soundblaster z then ran the white/red into my amp and then my headphones plug into the amp. Currently when I turn my amp off sound works just fine and if I turn the volume knob on my amp nothing happens its like my amp is being bypassed completely.. any idea how to fix this?

 

[darky_mtp]

Hello.
 
When your amp is off, you ear sound from headphones ? 

 

[Kenjiwing]

Yes when the amp is off sound is coming from the headphones and the soundcard I assume

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

   
I can easily understand the $400 X7 offering better audio quality, then the $80 SB-Z card.
(the X7 having better DAC and op-amps)
Can't understand how the X7 could offer better headphone surround sound?
Not sure what hardware could be added to the X7, for improving surround sound?
Or could the improved audio quality itself that make the surround sound noticeably better?

I know why, also the cheaper G5 (~$125) and E5 (189~$200) have better surround processing than the Z/Zx/ZxR cards and that's because the simple fact that Creative ****ed up virtual surround processing / multi channel speakers processing on the Z cards and it behaves as if it's a stereo signal when used with headphones meanwhile on G5/E5/X7 you are able to use 5.1/7.1 virtual surround speaker config at which the signal is processed as a multichannel sound signal and then downmixed into stereo. Z cards just handles it as a stereo from beginning so no downmixing or anything so no proper multichannel audio signal processing. Almost everyone more serious about gaming knows the trick to use 5.1 speaker setting in windows with headphones but with Z cards it doesn't work properly, it gives a plain "stereo" sound. Therefore I personally even preferred using Realtek ALC1150 /w onboard Texas NI5532 amps on my mobo versus ZxR as the Realtek does 5.1 channels to headphone/stereo conversion properly and it gives better surround processing when I compare everything disabled. 

I've wanted to give E5 or G5 a try but I have some issues with both those, E5 not supporting 5.1 speaker (only 7.1 and from my experience 5.1 works slightly better than 7.1 with headphones and games generally have better support for 5.1 vs the rather unusual 7.1 setup). G5 again you can pick both 5.1 and 7.1 but it has bunch of red lights that cannot be shut off and it doesn't have support for bluetooth that I'd have gladly had that E5 does. X7 I think supported both 5.1 and 7.1 virtual surround but it's rather big in size versus E5/G5 and it's expensive and I don't have much faith in Creative for audio performance, I'd be suprised if you got more like than $150~200 worth performing audiophile brand USB DAC performance.

 

[franzdom]

I have the Z card and am thinking of getting into a DAC & HP amp. So my question is when you use the optical out of the Z card does it do anything for me or is it the same as using the optical out from my motherboard?
I mean is the Creative optical output a bypass or is it proprocessed & equalized etc by the Creative software?

 

[thuNDa]

 
I know why, also the cheaper G5 (~$125) and E5 (189~$200) have better surround processing than the Z/Zx/ZxR cards and that's because the simple fact that Creative ****ed up virtual surround processing / multi channel speakers processing on the Z cards and it behaves as if it's a stereo signal when used with headphones meanwhile on G5/E5/X7 you are able to use 5.1/7.1 virtual surround speaker config at which the signal is processed as a multichannel sound signal and then downmixed into stereo. Z cards just handles it as a stereo from beginning so no downmixing or anything so no proper multichannel audio signal processing. Almost everyone more serious about gaming knows the trick to use 5.1 speaker setting in windows with headphones but with Z cards it doesn't work properly, it gives a plain "stereo" sound. Therefore I personally even preferred using Realtek ALC1150 /w onboard Texas NI5532 amps on my mobo versus ZxR as the Realtek does 5.1 channels to headphone/stereo conversion properly and it gives better surround processing when I compare everything disabled. 
 

 

 
This is tricky to encode, but i guess you want to say that the SB-Z cards are bad, because they don't process 5.1 to virtual surround when SBX-Surround is actually OFF.
LOL, how dare you creative...

 

[thuNDa]

  I have the Z card and am thinking of getting into a DAC & HP amp. So my question is when you use the optical out of the Z card does it do anything for me or is it the same as using the optical out from my motherboard?
I mean is the Creative optical output a bypass or is it proprocessed & equalized etc by the Creative software?

 
When using optical out on the SB-Z, you still get all the driver features like SBX Pro Studio.

 

[franzdom]

So would it be doing anything more for me if I had the ZxR? ... same conditions, optical out etc.

 

[thuNDa]

  So would it be doing anything more for me if I had the ZxR? ... same conditions, optical out etc.

no, if you want to go over optical out, the cheapest card of the line(your SB-Z) is as good as the ZxR.

 

[franzdom]

 
no, if you want to go over optical out, the cheapest card of the line(your SB-Z) is as good as the ZxR.

 Thank you!

 

[DangerClose]

  I have the Z card and am thinking of getting into a DAC & HP amp. So my question is when you use the optical out of the Z card does it do anything for me or is it the same as using the optical out from my motherboard?
I mean is the Creative optical output a bypass or is it proprocessed & equalized etc by the Creative software?

 
My SBZ sounds different through its SPDIF than through the mobo.  A bit less dynamic.  Less "full" sound, cymbals don't crash as strong, etc.