[tansand]

I think he was meaning to quote the whole conversation, but it only quotes your part..

Analogue tape that isn't stored tails out can get print through that is much worse than digital pre-ringing.

Preringing is what makes digital sound digital, not sure I've ever heard print through, though, so I can't say. I'm wanting to Make some AIFF's with intermediate phase filtering.

 

[skwoodwiva]

I think he was meaning to quote the whole conversation, but it only quotes your part..



Preringing is what makes digital sound digital, not sure I've ever heard print through, though, so I can't say. I'm wanting to Make some AIFF's with intermediate phase filtering.

An advocate, where you been, I need to stop Yamina & read thid forum...

 

[tansand]

 

[71 dB]

Analog has no 'pre ringing' though. Can I get intermediate phase filtering on AIFF files somehow, anybody know, so it's only ringing after? I don't like the way minimum phase sounds.

Analog systems are by nature minimum-phased.
Pre ringing "happens" only with impulse-like short signals. Music is usually about non-impulse-like signals.
You can use all pass filters to delay frequencies near Nyquist.

Your lecturer was disingenuous. The aesthetics of the idea of it is not important, it's how well it plays music that we care about.

He is eccentric and very intelligent, so you need to interpret his words the right way. Imagine vinyl didn't exist and nobody knew how it sounds. Technically vinyl is crappy (hey, it's old as hell invented in times when digital sound was utopia), but people just like the crappiness.

 

[71 dB]

A higher level of distortion is by definition less accurate. Distortion is deviation from the original signal.

Yes, but vinyl nuts think vinyl is more precise (distortion-free) and that's why they like it.

 

[skwoodwiva]

Analog systems are by nature minimum-phased.
Pre ringing "happens" only with impulse-like short signals. Music is usually about non-impulse-like signals.
You can use all pass filters to delay frequencies near Nyquist.


He is eccentric and very intelligent, so you need to interpret his words the right way. Imagine vinyl didn't exist and nobody knew how it sounds. Technically vinyl is crappy (hey, it's old as hell invented in times when digital sound was utopia), but people just like the crappiness.

Kiss then gossip, ok I play too...
You would not believe I can hear this ringing artfact, would you now.

 

[71 dB]

Wow
You have me listening. Good post.
Ty
Hmm.

Thanks! I don't know if the post is that good (structured etc.). Just wrote what I know and how I see things.

 

[71 dB]

Kiss then gossip, ok I play too...
You would not believe I can hear this ringing artfact, would you now.

I can hear it too. I have 5 reconstruction filters on my CD-player and at least with headphones I can hear very subtle change in soundstage width when changing the filter. This allows "optimazing" the sound, but none of the filters bother me. All sound very good. It's about choosing the best among 5 very good options.

 

[skwoodwiva]

Yes, but vinyl nuts think vinyl is more precise (distortion-free) and that's why they like it.

Not precisely, but consider, what if some hear the small things that others don't? 99% is fine for 99.9% of humans, maybe not for the remainder.
Think it through, I am a pita, of course

 

[colonelkernel8]

Not precisely, but consider, what if some hear the small things that others don't? 99% is fine for 99.9% of humans, maybe not for the remainder.
Think it through, I am a pita, of course

They can hear all they want. A machine can hear more, and every test in history has put the distortion of vinyl an order of magnitude higher than that of a CD or any digital format (even most compressed formats of a reasonably high bitrate). SNR, flutter, and dynamic range are all considerably better with digital formats, full stop.

 

[skwoodwiva]

Transend, where do you post this:
tansand said: ↑
Your lecturer was disingenuous. The aesthetics of the idea of it is not important, it's how well it plays music that we care about.??
I want write it on these walls...

 

[bigshot]

Not precisely, but consider, what if some hear the small things that others don't? 99% is fine for 99.9% of humans, maybe not for the remainder.

Human ears are human ears. They perform to certain limits. There is a range of hearing deterioration below optimal hearing thresholds, but there aren't any human ears that can hear with super powers. Expecting some theoretical ear exists that can hear the unhearable would be like wasting your time checking through every Yugo ever made hoping there's one in the batch that can break the sound barrier. It just isn't within the realm of possibility.

We design machines to test sound because ears aren't precise enough for our purposes. The machines can hear better than we can.

 

[tansand]

My lecturer of acoustics in the university said it well: "The idea of vinyl audio is horrible. You scratch a plastic disk with a stone and try to get good sound out of it!"

Thinking about it though, scratching a plastic disk with a stone may be a more aesthetically pleasing idea than digitizing music and then turning it back into analog, and then trying to get good sound out of it..

 

[tansand]

We design machines to test sound because ears aren't precise enough for our purposes. The machines can hear better than we can.

Well, what they are designed to hear. I can hear things much better that they aren't designed to hear. How it sounds, for instance?

 

[tansand]

Pre ringing "happens" only with impulse-like short signals. Music is usually about non-impulse-like signals.

Music is usually about what?? "Let's Make Out" from Casey Abrams was 25% off for Valentine's day!

You hear it in the music. Maybe I can find some music without impulse like short signals to listen to? Or maybe I can find a way to make my AIFF's intermediate phase filtered. Works for WAVs just fine!