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Cool stuff, sorry not cool, why ?

Discussion in 'Sound Science' started by skwoodwiva, Mar 27, 2018.
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  1. skwoodwiva
    Screenshot_20180327-043151.png The link that is on every page is missing all reference to DSD.
    But I do agree that regular CD when done right can be great whilewhile DVD / PCM is not that great.
  2. castleofargh Contributor
    how should DSD be brought up and why? what's wrong with PCM?

    it's not a defensive reaction, I'm not even the one who picked those links. and I have my own opinion about some of the ideas pushed on them:smiling_imp:. I simply don't seem to get your point.
  3. skwoodwiva
    It is a fine point, just sharing that I never liked DVD A as well as other attempts. They can be better than CD but it is not unusually the case, for me they are only so so better, where as DSD is like vinyl, well almost....
  4. RRod
    Note that most of that high sampling rate for DSD is to have room for noise shaping, so don't know why it's immediately more vinyl-like... Based on bitrate, DSD is just a bit above 96/24, but much less convenient to deal with than PCM.
    colonelkernel8 likes this.
  5. castleofargh Contributor
    oh I see. it's the idea that way more samples on DSD make it more "analog like".
    it's more of a marketing idea than anything special from a digital perspective. as RRod says, the 1bit choice is paid dearly through aggressive noise shaping and the obligation to high pass filter fairly soon to attenuate all that ultrasonic energy before it becomes a real problem. the final resolution of the reconstructed signal is amazingly similar to highres PCM. just provided in a consumer unfriendly package.
    also I know that there is a deep affection for vinyls from some audiophiles and aliens in "3rd rock from the sun", but to me saying that a digital format is like vinyl in any way, is an insult toward the digital format ^_^. vinyl isn't really the golden standard of fidelity.
  6. skwoodwiva
    There is no substitute for vinyl, for me. MC cartridge & all. I am old school....
    I do not mind the bother of DSD noise shaping it is the closest there is to V.
  7. castleofargh Contributor
    you're thinking preference, I'm talking about objective fidelity. :wink:
  8. skwoodwiva
    Sounds like you think your judgment is better than mine.
    I post It as I have experienced it for 44 years, I started my music listening at 16, when my Mother gave up trying to teach me piano. She was a touring performer.

    There was an AP shop near my house....
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  9. bigshot
    All high fidelity formats are capable of sounding good. Vinyl has some mechanical hurdles to overcome compared to other formats, but there's no reason it can't sound very good, although not quite perfect. When it comes to lossy, it's certainly possible to encode at a rate that gives you perfect sound. CDs are perfect by design. And high data rate formats are perfect even into the inaudible range.

    Formats aren't the problem if music sounds crappy. Engineering is.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
    colonelkernel8 likes this.
  10. 71 dB
    Some people prefer vinyl for the additional distortions introduced to the signal thinking vinyl (analog) formats are somewhat more accurate then digital formats. When you have the same kind of distortions on everything you listen, it is easy for the ears to get used to it. I think those distortions gives "familiarity" to the sound and some people like that.

    It takes a lot of effort to really understand digital audio (and unlearn what you think digital audio is). Most people don't make the effort to understand digital audio enough, but they jump to (wrong) conclusions to explain their preferences. It's easy to make digital sound like vinyl (just record a vinyl to a CD-R and you are done), but it's impossible to make vinyl sound like a CD.

    My lecturer of acoustics in the university said it well: "The idea of vinyl audio is horrible. You scratch a plastic disk with a stone and try to get good sound out of it!"

    skwoodwiva and colonelkernel8 like this.
  11. tansand
    Analog has no 'pre ringing' though. Can I get intermediate phase filtering on AIFF files somehow, anybody know, so it's only ringing after? I don't like the way minimum phase sounds.

    Your lecturer was disingenuous. The aesthetics of the idea of it is not important, it's how well it plays music that we care about.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  12. bigshot
    A higher level of distortion is by definition less accurate. Distortion is deviation from the original signal.

    Analogue tape that isn't stored tails out can get print through that is much worse than digital pre-ringing.
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2018
  13. skwoodwiva
    You have me listening. Good post.
  14. skwoodwiva
    Ahh, some evidance in favor of vinyl?
    Yes I recall that truth
  15. skwoodwiva
    I meant to respond to transend about lack of ringing in analog.

    Yes I remember that truthtruth.

    Where did he post, I cannot tell.
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