[kwkarth]

Quote:

OK, another genuine question here..
 
Why hasnt anyone ever been able to pull this off before?
I certainly know nothing of amp build technology, but it seems like people are saying that they arent reinventing the wheel here.. so...
What makes these guys so special?
is it their skill level?
have they made a breakthrough of some kind?
have they found a way to get parts cheaper than anyone else somehow?
all of the above?

The real answer needs to come from them, all else is surmising.  
 

 

[Leny]

Quote:

OK, another genuine question here..
 
Why hasnt anyone ever been able to pull this off before?
I certainly know nothing of amp build technology, but it seems like people are saying that they arent reinventing the wheel here.. so...
What makes these guys so special?
is it their skill level?
have they made a breakthrough of some kind?
have they found a way to get parts cheaper than anyone else somehow?
all of the above?
 
 
 

 
[size=medium]They did. The Creek OBH 11se was made some years ago. However they sold it via dealers and hence dealer and distributor margins pushed up the price to over $300. [/size]
 
[size=medium]The amp was fine, but suffered because of simple prejudice. It was viewed negatively because it was not from North America, and also because it was small when many people were favouring physically big amps.[/size]
 
[size=medium]It’ s actual performance was both subjectively and objectively excellent.[/size]

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

[size=medium]They did. The Creek OBH 11se was made some years ago. However they sold it via dealers and hence dealer and distributor margins pushed up the price to over $300.[/size]
 
[size=medium]The amp was fine, but suffered because of simple prejudice. It was viewed negatively because it was not from North America, and also because it was small when many people were favouring physically big amps.[/size]
 
[size=medium]It’ s actual performance was both subjectively and objectively excellent.[/size]

The OBH-11se was my first headamp and worth every penny, but it doesn't begin to hold a candle to this design.  This design is simply more elegantly simple, if you know what I mean. 

 
The proof of the pudding is in the eating.  Oh, what a picture. 

  

 

[Steve Eddy]

 
Quote:

OK, another genuine question here..
 
Why hasnt anyone ever been able to pull this off before?
I certainly know nothing of amp build technology, but it seems like people are saying that they arent reinventing the wheel here.. so...
What makes these guys so special?
is it their skill level?
have they made a breakthrough of some kind?
have they found a way to get parts cheaper than anyone else somehow?
all of the above?
 
 
 

 
I don't know that it's a "breakthrough" so much as a matter of perseverance.
 
First you have to have a mind to think that it's even possible. I'm sure many never even bothered to try simply assuming it couldn't be done. There are many successes that have come about in spite of the person behind it being told it couldn't be done.
 
Then you have to be willing to invest the time exploring all the options to see just what CAN be done.
 
They came up with a very simple and elegant two-piece chassis design. Everything is board mounted so there are no lead wires to mess with. It's also a relatively simple design not requiring dozens of parts.
 
And they likely invested a good amount of money in procuring parts in sufficient quantities to get end-column pricing.
 
That's my guess anyway.
 
se

 

[chesebert]

Num of parts is generally inversely proportional to the skill level of the designer.  Perhaps that's why most Chinese-made amps/DACs/CDP are so "stuffed".  Ever taken a look inside Nagra? - it takes tremendous amount of time and skill to design something that "looks" simple.

 

[Steve Eddy]

 
Quote:

 
[size=medium]They did. The Creek OBH 11se was made some years ago. However they sold it via dealers and hence dealer and distributor margins pushed up the price to over $300.[/size]

Were they actually made in the UK?
 
Looking at the online manual for the OBH 11 simply says "Designed in the UK" so it was probably offshored to China or Taiwan so not quite an amp comparison to the Shiit.
 
se

 

[Jason Stoddard]

 
Quote:

OK, another genuine question here..
 
Why hasnt anyone ever been able to pull this off before?
I certainly know nothing of amp build technology, but it seems like people are saying that they arent reinventing the wheel here.. so...
What makes these guys so special?
is it their skill level?
have they made a breakthrough of some kind?
have they found a way to get parts cheaper than anyone else somehow?
all of the above?
 
 
 

We're actually magic.
 
No, really. We're ancient wizards. We could sell these for $0.02 and make a profit.
 
Er . . .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
No.
 
It's really three things:
 
1. Direct sale. We couldn't do this through dealers. Not a slam on dealers, there's a lot of advantages to going someplace where you can compare a bunch of gear with someone who knows it well.
 
2. Very efficient design. Our chassis looks simple, because it is. But if you knew all the time it took to go through multiple protos, make them work, and work out all the mechanical challenges of having a chassis that is also a heatsink.
 
3. Quantity purchase. Yes, we invested pretty heavily in the first run--but that's necessary when trying to hit a price point.
 
So, you essentially nailed it. No breakthroughs, no real magic (though I wish there was.)
 
We'll look into the mechanical and electrical hum . . . I can't promise anything, but honestly we didn't notice the mechanical hum unless there were a dozen units on the burn-in rack. Electrical . . . it may just be that the gain is better suited to full-size phones rather than IEMs.
 
Now, if we *were* magicians . . .

 

[Zink]

If you guys found a 1/4" male to 1/8" female attenuator that would allow the amp to drive IEMs well then that would attract another large group of customers who want one amp for all of their equipment. You could sell it for $10 or $20 if you needed to and it would make the amp much more useful.
 
Edit: everyone play nice until there are more impressions, theres enough posts in this thread as it is.

 

[reiserFS]

I can't wait for the v230/220 version to come out, this baby will definitely be on my to-buy list. Any news on the transformers, Jason?

 

[.Sup]

Quote:

 

We're actually magic.
 
No, really. We're ancient wizards. We could sell these for $0.02 and make a profit.
 
Er . . .
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
No.
 
It's really three things:
 
1. Direct sale. We couldn't do this through dealers. Not a slam on dealers, there's a lot of advantages to going someplace where you can compare a bunch of gear with someone who knows it well.
 
2. Very efficient design. Our chassis looks simple, because it is. But if you knew all the time it took to go through multiple protos, make them work, and work out all the mechanical challenges of having a chassis that is also a heatsink.
 
3. Quantity purchase. Yes, we invested pretty heavily in the first run--but that's necessary when trying to hit a price point.
 
So, you essentially nailed it. No breakthroughs, no real magic (though I wish there was.)
 
We'll look into the mechanical and electrical hum . . . I can't promise anything, but honestly we didn't notice the mechanical hum unless there were a dozen units on the burn-in rack. Electrical . . . it may just be that the gain is better suited to full-size phones rather than IEMs.
 
Now, if we *were* magicians . . .

Sounds like a good business man. GL
 

 

[Steve Eddy]

 
Quote:

We'll look into the mechanical and electrical hum . . . I can't promise anything, but honestly we didn't notice the mechanical hum unless there were a dozen units on the burn-in rack.

That's pretty much the nature of laminated core power transformers. And you're not likely to be able to find a toroid equivalent for the same price unless you get it from China.
 
As for electrical hum, look at the dual split bobbin. It radiates less than the split bobbins and that's probably the main source of the electrical hum. You can probably get a dual split bobbin with the same footprint and PC board layout for the same price.
 
P.S. You've got mail.
 
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[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Br777 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Why hasnt anyone ever been able to pull this off before?
I certainly know nothing of amp build technology, but it seems like people are saying that they arent reinventing the wheel here.. so...
What makes these guys so special?
is it their skill level?
have they made a breakthrough of some kind?
have they found a way to get parts cheaper than anyone else somehow?
all of the above?
 

I would argue that it is partially because they aren't aiming for the easy-sell bling...... no random pieces of gold coloured metal attached to the front panel, no MOAR BLACKGATES!, no superhyperdiscreetbuzzword technology, etc. etc. that pervade many manufacturers.
 
Just seems like a solid amp at a good price, no BS.

 

[Leny]

Quote:

Were they actually made in the UK?
 
Looking at the online manual for the OBH 11 simply says "Designed in the UK" so it was probably offshored to China or Taiwan so not quite an amp comparison to the Shiit.
 
se

Yes, I think you may well be right about overseas manufacture. (But that may just reinforce my point about them being 'marked down' for not being local to your neck of the woods). Actually my main point was that good cheap amps have already existed, and Schiit are not the first. Just stating facts, and obviously folks are free to research the subject if they choose.
 

 

[Leny]

Quote:

The OBH-11se was my first headamp and worth every penny, but it doesn't begin to hold a candle to this design.  
 
 

Kevin, I am sure you will agree that is just opinion and not fact.
 
My point was / is that good cheap amps have previously existed. I am not detracting from the work of Schiit, just stating fact to help someone who asked a question.

 

[Steve Eddy]

 
Quote:

Actually my main point was that good cheap amps have already existed, and Schiit are not the first. Just stating facts, and obviously folks are free to research the subject if they choose.
 

 
No, Shiit isn't the first to offer a good inexpensive amp. But then no one is claiming that they are.
 
What sets Schiit apart is that they're offering a good inexpensive amp without selling out and outsourcing to China. And that is something of a first as far as I'm aware.
 
se