[tvhead]

Let's be serious and not kid ourselves. I can understand SACD and a home system. Multichannels will create a realistic soundstage. But on headphones? Is that a thing that can be tweaked on a pair of two channel speakers next to your ears? "I'll adjust this one wire, and it will make the guitar sound like it is 130 degrees from my head." Do headphone makers really think of this stuff. Is this all psychological? Seems like the recording engineer makes a much much bigger difference in the soundstage than a pair of headphones. They set the soundstage. So shouldn't the headphones, that engineers use, recreate the most accurate soundstage? So why aren't the 7506 the best headphones?

I'm confused.

 

[Neruda]

headphones can and will produce an accurate soundstage when they're fed a signal meant to be reproduced by headphones: in other words, a pair of headphones with a binaural recording will sound incredibly real. Just thought I'd mention that.

 

[KR...]

An audiophile binaural recording on a pair of high-end headphones, with a high-end amp will whip the floor with any soundstage that any speaker system can dream of creating.
That's a fact!

 

[KR...]

this is the only place that I know of that sells them :

http://www.binaural.com/

they have some MP3 samples to download!

 

[tvhead]

What about non binaural recordings? Come on seriously, where the heck am I supposed to get a binaural recording of Britney Spears new album or anything else? Let's talk practically! I don't want to limit my listening to pipe organ music! People are always saying "oh, the soundstage is so much better with these headphones".. And they aren't talking about binaural recordings. Etc.. What is the big idea?!

The recording engineer creates the soundstage with binaural recording.. Yes, I know this. My question is regarding the perceived soundstage and sonic differences between headphone makes with non-binaural recordings. You know, the topic of 95% of this forum.

Why doesn't the music sound best with same headphones that the engineer uses to produce the recording?

 

[ai0tron]

There is a percieved soundstage that occurs whenever listening to any kind of music. There are many factors that play into my personal perception of a soundstage. I see it as a result of the recording process, I see it as a result of the headphones I own, and I see it as a result of the type of music being listened to. There is a perception of soundstage with headphones and some do have better soundstages than others it is not a myth. But because two channel stereo sound functions the way it does the perception of a stereo soundstage is best experienced with speakers.

However as many have mentioned before binaural sound through headphones is scary kind of realistic.

 

[Tim D]

Because even though the V6/7506 are popular studio phones (rugged, affordable, bang for the buck), they aren't actually used as an end-all reference. There are plenty of popular studio phones. And even if they are popular, we don't know to what extent headphones are even used in the recording process as there is typically strong bias towards making things sound ok on boomboxes and car stereos. The reference in question sometimes is average consumer audio for most mainstream recordings. And most mainstream recordings are pretty bad anyways.

Imaging on headphones can be better to comparitvely priced speakers. Room-filling ambience is what headphones will always lack, but they can still portray depth and have precise imaging. Headphones can create a very precise headstage. Yes some headphones have much better imaging than others, as well as wider soundstages. They all can be somewhat lacking in the "ambient" room-filling sensation, except maybe an AKG1000 paired with a sub. Most speaker setups need very ideal room and placement as well as GOOD speakers in order to create any decent imaging anyhow. Many headphone listeners have adapted their listening such that "headstage" is very transparent to them.

So headphones can image better than speakers with less effort and cost. Headphones can't provide room-filling ambient sensations. Some headphones portray sound differently, some being more distant, forward, wider, narrower, etc. I did not consider soundstage on the V6 either a particular strength or weakness, mostly average. There are phones that are better in this department for sure. Yes V6/7506 or other pro phones, AKG240, Beyer 770/990, MAY be used now and then...but IMO probably a limited usage in the process. So even if they use these phones...they don't use these phones for the purpose of making the music sound RIGHT on those particular headphones.

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Originally posted by tvhead [B. Multichannels will create a realistic soundstage. [/B]

I'm not so sure about that. I haven't tested it personally, but I haven't seen many indications of that either. For music, stereo still rules.

I guess any discussion of soundstage is relative to the equipment being discussed. Personally, headphones (stereo format) do create a soundstage of sorts, but they also create a blob-of-music in your head as well.

Speakers, on the other hand, optimally placed in a nice listening environment, create a soundstage that is subtle and yet more that subtle. Some like to use the term real or realistic, but I don't like to use such terms. Having soundwaves interacting with the environment is the natural state of things so I guess I'd be more comfortable with the term: natural.

Phones and speakers provide differing and overlapping types of listening experiences, and I doubt any technology will completely bridge that gap.

 

[tvhead]

Tim D,

What gives a particular headphone a wider or more precise soundstage or headstage? I mean, they're just tiny speakers that vibrate to replicate the sound of the recording? Something that is supposed to be analytical and precise at reproducing the subtle nuances should also produce the most realistic soundstage? You know that response "Wow, these sound so clear." Shouldn't that accuracy in it of itself reproduce the most realistic soundstage? That accurate headphone should also be able to play all types of music no matter what the genre. How can one headphone be better for certain types of music? All it should be doing is playing back what is recorded.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the headphone is not supposed to decide where to put the instruments in a recording. It is just there to play it back. The sound or the recording itself should set the soundstage. If the headphone is capable of playing every sound accurately and the recording was good, the soundstage should also be right on.

 

[Tim D]

Yes I feel some headphones do play a few tricks to sound wider. Ety's don't...but for transducers that are crammed near the cranium and completely L/R channel isolated...lets just say the headstage they can provide is very spatial, precise, and does not give me audio claustrophobia.

IMO the Ety's are more accurate, and natural sounding than a V6 and has better imaging and soundstage. Their L/R drivers are meticulously matched and individually recorded. V6's are not meticulously matched...but definitely good for thier price of course. Someone had a 7506/V6 L/R hybrid, so maybe someone somewhere is probably just snapping some earcups together.

I said before that Ety's to me are ERTL...just like the real thing but smaller. So IMO, the soundstage is extremely authentic on the Ety's, however smaller...its more of a headstage, compared to a roomstage.

AKG501's were the widest I've heard especially for the price...I'd give authenticity in "headstage" to the Ety's however. So widest isn't always "better" or more authentic. However AKG501 soundstage is indeed pretty good all things considered, and one headphone to check out just to see how some headphones can portray things so differently.

 

[tvhead]

Why do people say the V6 are accurate but have a tiny sound stage? That I don't get. I wonder if I should get some of those $300 etys.

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Originally posted by tvhead Tim D, What gives a particular headphone a wider or more precise soundstage or headstage? I mean, they're just tiny speakers that vibrate to replicate the sound of the recording? Something that is supposed to be analytical and precise at reproducing the subtle nuances should also produce the most realistic soundstage? You know that response "Wow, these sound so clear." Shouldn't that accuracy in it of itself reproduce the most realistic soundstage? That accurate headphone should also be able to play all types of music no matter what the genre. How can one headphone be better for certain types of music? All it should be doing is playing back what is recorded.

I think you're bogging yourself down with your teminology a bit. Most of your answers can be found in Tim's post. I'll add that soundstage is not the simple product of an "accurate" reproduction of a given recording, but is a complex combination of everything from the nuances of individual pieces of equipment, to the nuances of the listening environment be it the little cups of a headphone, or a bedroom, or a full blown concert hall.

 

[dngl]

I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the headphone system's speed. We place things through hearing based on l/r balance and time.

 

[tvhead]

Pigmode,

Are you saying that these little cups decide where to put the instruments each time it plays a recording?

 

[tvhead]

So it's the speed!