[jferreir]

After about 3 years, my Monster Turbine IEMs have bit the dust (left channel). I've flirted with the idea if switching to full-sized cans before, but now I have to make a decision (hence the post). I will be auditioning various headphones this weekend, so I'm looking for help in narrowing the field...
 
The two main reasons I'm thinking about full-sized headphones are sound quality and comfort. Concerning sound quality, I want something that is crystal clear and accurate - especially in the mid-range. That said, I don't want to sacrifice tight, tuneful bass as a result. I listen to various genres, but mostly a mix of alternative/rock (Black Keys, White Stripes, Spoon, EELS, Hendrix, etc. - where bass is important) and indie/acoustic/blues (Bright Eyes, Elliott Smith, Johnny Cash, Son House, Skip James, etc. - where a crystal clear mid-range is important). In terms of comfort, I'm simply tired of sticking things in my ear canal; inevitably, my ear canals get sore and mildly itchy after moderate use (~30 minutes).
 
Here are the reasons why I'm on the fence about full-sized headphones:
- I would use them on a noisy commute (in addition to a quiet environment)
- I don't have a headphone amp. These would be connected directly to a 4th generation iPod Nano
- I have a small/medium sized head and dress like a stereotypical white guy (i.e., I don't want to look like an idiot)
 
I would appreciate any/all suggestions, but please base them on the info I'm providing. In other words, please refrain from recommending a pair of headphones simply because you own them and want to justify your purchase. I would like to spend around $200, but can spend more if absolutely necessary. I take good care of my things, but these headphones will see a few bumps. I have briefly summarized the pros/cons of my prior IEMs below. Again, I'm looking for an honest assessment. If I shouldn't be looking at full-sized cans, please let me know!
 
Here is what I like/dislike about the two decent pairs of IEMs that I've owned:
 
Monster Turbine:
Pros:
- Good bass response (tuneful, although slightly overbearing on some tracks)
- Solid build and subtle good looks
- Great isolation with Comply T-400 tips
 
Cons:
- Uncomfortable after 30 minutes of wear
- Lack of clarity in the mids
- Weak top end
 
 
Westone UM1:
Pros:
- Excellent mid-range clarity
- Decent top end
 
Cons:
- Poor fit/isolation
- Non-existent bass (even with improved isolation)
- Over-the-ear style was uncomfortable
- Uncomfortable after 45 minutes of wear

 

[DaBomb77766]

Well, it sounds to me like a pair of IEMs would still be what you want, if you ask me...IEMs are the best if you want to use them on public transport, and are especially nice if you want to use them unamped.

 

[jferreir]

Quote:

Well, it sounds to me like a pair of IEMs would still be what you want, if you ask me...IEMs are the best if you want to use them on public transport, and are especially nice if you want to use them unamped.

Argh, I know... The reason why I don't want to buy another pair of IEMs is that I find I'm listening to music even less. I find them so uncomfortable that I don't even bother taking my iPod with me on the commute anymore. Seriously, I find them that uncomfortable.
 
Is portable amplification a necessity for full-sized headphones? Or should full-sized headphones only be used at home with proper amplification? Are portable amplifiers big and expensive? Do they drain battery power? I'm not opposed to buying one in theory, but I really have no clue what they're all about. I know next to nothing about portable music (obviously). Do I have any hope of finding a pair of headphones that I'll actually enjoy? This is starting to feel like a hopeless endeavor. I'm tired of doing so much damn research - I just want to enjoy listening to music again!

 

[DemonicLemming]

Portable amplifiers aren't at all necessary for full-sized cans.  There are some full-size cans that really require an amp, but none of those qualifies as "portable".  There are also plenty of portable amps that are quite small and inexpensive, although there are a lot of "portable" amps that should really fall into the "transportable" category, as you'd be hard-pressed to fit them in a pocket.
 
The Sennheiser HD 25-1 II would be worth looking into; if you don't mind jumping up a size factor, the Sennheiser HD280 is another candidate.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

Portable amplifiers aren't at all necessary for full-sized cans.  There are some full-size cans that really require an amp, but none of those qualifies as "portable".  There are also plenty of portable amps that are quite small and inexpensive, although there are a lot of "portable" amps that should really fall into the "transportable" category, as you'd be hard-pressed to fit them in a pocket.
 
The Sennheiser HD 25-1 II would be worth looking into; if you don't mind jumping up a size factor, the Sennheiser HD280 is another candidate.

I concur about the Senns, they sound exactly like what OP needs.

 

[acsantos]

I'm more or less in the same position as you and we listen to very similar stuff. Currently, after researching quaite a bit, I'm considering the senns hd-25 1 II or the aiaiai tma-1. I'm leaning towards the senns as I'm afraid the tma-1 will not be clear enough in the mids (acoustic/indie stuff). OTOH, the tma-1 are lower impedance and respond well to eq, so it "should" be better without an amp. I'm going to listen to both (maybe tomorrow) and report back
 
Maybe another option for you would be the Beyer's dt1350? Not on my list, because they're out of my price range.
 
I'm bumping this hoping to hear more suggestions/alternatives

 

[jferreir]

Thank you for the helpful replies.
 
I appreciate the suggestions and I will definitely be interested to read 'acsantos' report on the HD 25-1 II and TMA-1. From the above, I assume I should be looking at closed cans with low impedance? Any other features/specs I should be cognizant of? I;d appreciate more suggestions, if they make sense.
 
Ideally, I'd like to narrow the audition to five headphones. I'm surprised Grado hasn't been mentioned yet. Is that because they're an open headphone - hence poor at isolating background noise - or because they lack bass response? I heard someone comment that Grado's excelled at mid-range clarity, which somewhat piqued my interest.

 

[burnliff]

You're right on the mark with Grados as far as isolation and mids go.

 

[AmanGeorge]

If you've got the budget for it, another option might be custom IEMs - generally very comfortable as they don't feel like they're constantly trying to expand in your ear canal the way
universals do. But YMMV.
 
Grados aren't suitable for public transit use given how open they are. I also think they're among the most uncomfortable cans on the planet (they have very rough pads that sit directly on your ear rather than fitting around it). YMMV there too, of course.
 
You are looking for closed headphones with a reputation for being good portables - the Senns recommended above are a good choice, as is the Audio-Technica ATH-M50, or one of the Shure line of full-sized cans. Good luck!

 

[jferreir]

I forgot to mention that in terms of sound quality, I want a crystal clear mid-range with a wide open soundstage. I briefly read a few reviews on the HD 25-1 and noticed that many people complain about the narrow soundstage. Am I asking for too much in wanting a great mid-range with soundstage for around $200?
 
Ideally, I would like the cans to mimic the sonic signature of the Harbeth P3ESR mini-monitor. I have these speakers at home and they're just perfect - crystal clear mids, HUGE soundstage, and just enough punch in the lower end/sparkle in the top to make rock music come to life. Naturally, I don't expect headphones to come near this type of sound quality, but I would like a pair of headphones to at least mimic that signature. That is, I would like headphones that are capable of reproducing music with the same 'proportions' of lows, mids and highs. I hope that makes sense!
 

 

[AmanGeorge]

Unfortunately, soundstage is something you will likely have to trade off to get a closed headphone with good isolation.

 

[jferreir]

Quote:

Unfortunately, soundstage is something you will likely have to trade off to get a closed headphone with good isolation.

 
Thank you for clarifying; these are the simple but important facts that I need to know. I have difficulty understanding what features require which compromises...
 
So, if I wanted better soundstage, I would likely have to sacrifice isolation and, as a result, tuneful bass response? I knew compromises had to be made, but I was secretly hoping that I could have my cake and eat it too. On a separate note, what is the going rate for a pair of Sennheiser HD 25-1 II? I'm located in Toronto, where headphones shouldn't be difficult to find, but I don't want to get ripped off. I was tentatively thinking of auditioning headphones at Bay Bloor Radio, then seeking out a better price elsewhere. Granted this practice is borderline unethical, but BBR is notoriously over-priced and I've had nothing but bad experiences with their customer service (hence the lax moral conscience).

 

[DemonicLemming]

Grados can have a decent bass response, but they'd be utterly worthless on a bus or train - everyone would hear what you were listening to, and there would be no attenuation of external noise at all, so you wouldn't get to hear much music.
 
Price down here in the US looks like $200, give or take a couple dollars, for the HD25-1 II.
 
Quote:

 
Thank you for clarifying; these are the simple but important facts that I need to know. I have difficulty understanding what features require which compromises...
 
So, if I wanted better soundstage, I would likely have to sacrifice isolation and, as a result, tuneful bass response? I knew compromises had to be made, but I was secretly hoping that I could have my cake and eat it too. On a separate note, what is the going rate for a pair of Sennheiser HD 25-1 II? I'm located in Toronto, where headphones shouldn't be difficult to find, but I don't want to get ripped off. I was tentatively thinking of auditioning headphones at Bay Bloor Radio, then seeking out a better price elsewhere. Granted this practice is borderline unethical, but BBR is notoriously over-priced and I've had nothing but bad experiences with their customer service (hence the lax moral conscience).

 

 

[AmanGeorge]

Quote:

Thank you for clarifying; these are the simple but important facts that I need to know. I have difficulty understanding what features require which compromises...
 
So, if I wanted better soundstage, I would likely have to sacrifice isolation and, as a result, tuneful bass response? I knew compromises had to be made, but I was secretly hoping that I could have my cake and eat it too. 

I'm not sure what you mean by tuneful bass response. As a general rule, closed headphones have an easier time than open headphones in generating impactful bass... it's really tough to find an open headphone with the kind of bass impact you would get from something like a closed Denon or Ultrasone (you've basically got to spend $1K and buy an LCD-2). But open headphones can still have excellent bass that extends deep and is textured and detailed, it is just unlikely to have the same "oomph" as some of the bassier closed models.

 

[jferreir]

By 'tuneful bass', I simply mean something that sounds natural and is not overbearing. I've heard so many speakers/headphones where the bass is impactful, but also flabby and inarticulate. I find these characteristics usually appeal to people who listen to bass heavy music such as rap/hip hop/techno, but it simply ruins the musical balance for other pieces. The best analogy I can think of is when someone puts a massive sound system in his '92 Honda Civic, which then rattles from all the bass. Naturally, this is an exaggeration, but it conveys the same idea. I want bass response that is true to the recording... not something that Dr. Dre would manufacture from his HP recording studio wearing that futuristic helmet... I don't even like rap, but what a sellout!