Comparisons of the Liquid Lightning and KGSSHV Solid State Stax Amplifiers

[MacedonianHero]

No need to apologize. I don't recommend it, at least for myself, as of right now either.

 
I'm Canadian...can't help it. Sorry. 

 

 

[wink]

I'm human, can't help that either.....

 

[purrin]

   
Or because they'd rather not. 

 Stax only at 100Vrms, but the Electra is specified at 300Vrms as well. Why not run the full gambit and stop at 300Vrms?
 
The KGSSHV numbers are out there...you just have to look. 

 
If you are intimating that Craig is being dishonest, elusive, or deceptive, then I would suggest that you call him yourself. He picks up the phone often during the workdays. Try five times and you are guaranteed to have him pick up at least twice.
 
It's possible he doesn't have high-voltage measuring equipment to do so past 300V. I think during testing, Anaxilus was slamming the diaphragm into the stators on the 007 around 350Vrms with a drum test track. I'd have to ask to confirm, so don't quote me on it.
 
Peter, you always seemed to be the type who would prefer to rely on your ears instead of measurements, why the sudden concern now? For arguments sake, I mean what if THD was 1% at 500Vrms? What would that mean to you? What Vrms do you listen to your SR-009 at?

 

[MacedonianHero]

If you are intimating that Craig is being dishonest, elusive, deceptive, then I would suggest that you call him yourself. He picks up the phone often during the workdays. Try five times and you are guaranteed to have him pick up at least twice.
 
It's possible he doesn't have high-voltage measuring equipment to do so past 300V. I think during testing, Anaxilus was slamming the diaphragm into the stators on the 007 around 350Vrms with a drum test track. I'd have to ask to confirm, so don't quote me on it.
 
Peter, you always seemed to be the type who would prefer to rely on your ears instead of measurements, why the sudden concern now? For arguments sake, I mean what if THD was 1% at 500Vrms? What would that mean to you?
 
 

Not intimating anything...just seems odd to me as all. Not sure where you've been, but I am not a subjectivist. Please feel free to read my signature Marv. I'm an engineer and I love my data/measurements. Did you forget the article that I worked with Tyll on Measurements on innerfidelity.com?
 
I would classify myself as somewhere in the middle. I prefer using BOTH first hand listening impressions along side with real measurements to keep me from "fooling myself" as Feynman put it. 
 
1% THD at 500Vrms means nothing to me as I couldn't hear it. But if I'm about to drop several thousands of dollars on a top-flight amp, I'd like the whole picture.

 

[purrin]

  1% THD at 500Vrms means nothing to me as I couldn't hear it. But if I'm about to drop several thousands of dollars on a top-flight amp, I'd like the whole picture.

 
Well, if you are truly interested, and the specified ratings seem odd, then call Craig up as part of your initial due diligence. He's an engineer too.

 

[ultrabike]

  Not intimating anything...just seems odd to me as all.

 
You are implying Craig has something to hide:

   
Probably because Stax amps specify THD @ 100 Vrms also. BTW, where did you get the 0.5% THD number for the KGSSHV?
 

 
Or because they'd rather not. 

 Stax only at 100Vrms, but the Electra is specified at 300Vrms as well. Why not run the full gambit and stop at 300Vrms?
 
The KGSSHV numbers are out there...you just have to look. 

 
You were told to just give him a call... No?
 

  Please feel free to read my signature Marv. I'm an engineer and I love my data/measurements. Did you forget the article that I worked with Tyll on Measurements on innerfidelity.com?
 
I would classify myself as somewhere in the middle. I prefer using BOTH first hand listening impressions along side with real measurements to keep me from "fooling myself" as Feynman put it. 
 
1% THD at 500Vrms means nothing to me as I couldn't hear it. But if I'm about to drop several thousands of dollars on a top-flight amp, I'd like the whole picture.
 

 
So.... my google skills are crap... Where was that 0.5% THD on YOUR KGSSHV? Any other measurements/data that helped you get the whole picture?




 
 

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
Well, if you are truly interested, and the specified ratings seem odd, then call Craig up as part of your initial due diligence. He's an engineer too.

I will....on Monday. 

 

You were told to just give him a call... No?

I didn't even read Marv's post and you're telling me that I was just told to give him a call. Geez...you're making me want to unsubscribe from my own thread. 

 
With regards to the KGSSHV specs...they're there. 

 

[ultrabike]

Sorry about that Peter. I honestly didn't know Marv replied with a similar answer.
 
As far as "there", just send me a PM.

 

[gilency]

Sorry Purrin, my subjective idea of flat and boring is completely opposite of yours. And so it goes.
I do happen to like the 009 more than any other headphone I have heard and don't need any errors of omission or commission to listen to it.

 

[DefQon]

Now we all know the best Stax ever made was the original Omega 1's. 

 

[zerodeefex]

I have phenomenal Google skills and can't find that number anywhere. I'd love a link.

 

[purrin]

  Sorry Purrin, my subjective idea of flat and boring is completely opposite of yours. And so it goes.
I do happen to like the 009 more than any other headphone I have heard and don't need any errors of omission or commission to listen to it.

 
No need to apologize. I detest Debussy but love Bach and Mozart. I have headphile friends who are the opposite. We laugh and poke fun at each other for our differences of opinion.

 

[wink]

Quote:zerodeefex

 I have phenomenal Google skills and can't find that number anywhere. I'd love a link.

The other site's KGSSHV thread won't show up in google.
 
You'll have to go there and trawl through the thread for the info...

 

[David1961]

A lot of posts I read on head-fi, are head-fiers impressions on the headphones and headphone amps they have and have heard, but I don't often see what source is being used.
As we know, without the source we'll hear nothing, and the quality of the source ( IMO ) will dictate how well the headphones and headphone amps will sound.

 

[eric65]

  Hi, purrin
 
And according to you, what is the best amplifier currently in production to work with the most successful and the better synergy with the SR 009?
 
Electra?
 
BHSE?
 
LL2?
 
727?
 
Other?

 
Originally Posted by purrin
 
To begin, I'm actually not a big fan of the SR-009, particularly with the tonal response. As far as its "get-of-out-the-way" and what I suspect, very low distortion characteristics, I am amazed by the SR-009.
 
Of the choices above and with the SR-009, I would choose the Electra with EL34s (not 6L6s, while I feel the 6L6s are more neutral and actually my preference as a tube, the 6L6 does not play well with the tonal characteristics of the SR009.) With a typical modern sounding sigma-delta DAC as the source, I would forgo the capacitor upgrade and stick with the standard cap for a slightly thicker sound. I am really nit-picking here, and can probably go either way as there are pluses and minuses with either approach.
 
The LL2 would be next on the list. I actually consider the LL2 on an equal overall footing with the Electra, but it is a different sounding amp. (what do you expect with SS vs. tubes?) I know in the past I had recommended to people who asked me, that the LL and SR-009 was indeed a synergistic combination. The LL2 however is more neutral and extended sounding than the LL1 (which as some have indicated, had issues reproducing the extremes.) In essence, the LL2 is slightly brighter than the LL1; and I actually feel the LL2 and SR-007, especially the more tame mk1 edition, a great match. The LL2 driver control is much better than the LL1 too.
 
The BHSE / SR-009 combinations I've heard were always too bright and etched, especially with a typical digital source. And at the risk of being tarred and feathered, I've always felt the BHSE, in similar vein to the KGSSHV, sounded dynamically flat and boring, though not nearly to the latter's extent. There's a reason why I cancelled my BHSE order. It's hard for me to say his because I know Justin @ Headamp in person, and he's a always been a really nice fellow to me. There any many others who would disagree with my assessment, and I'm sure they would be willing to provide their own counterpoints.
 
I hate to say it, but I actually kind of like the 727 with the SR-009.
 
Being a fan of SETs (i.e., EC BA, Apex Pinnacle, Manley Neo-Classic, etc.), I kind of quit 'stats because I never quite found the right amplifier for them. Not a fan push-pull which always seems to remove some information in the recordings. And given their nature, 'stat amps seem to require three or four stages with some negative feedback applied to the circuit. LOL, ironically, I guess this makes me a "wire with gain" guy based on preferring circuits which look and work more like wire with gain; although one can argue the reactive components, the caps and the coils commonly used with SET designs do muck things up.
 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

 
Thank you, purrin for your clarification.
 
I quite agree with you especially on the concept of synergy needed between the amplifier and the SR-009
 
Eric
 

PS: I also would add the combo RKV-Wee (without impedancer) as an association not too expensive, very happy and synergistic with the SR-009. Amplifier atypical in its presentation, but still in production as amplifier, currently.

(NB: note also the excellent synergy of the RKV amp (without wee energizer of course) with the Sehnneiser HD-800 headphone).

(NB bis : In our recent single-blind comparative study of four amps on SR 009 (Electra with tubes PSVANES; Combo RKV-Wee (without impedancer), SRM 727 and SRM 007T), the first three amplifiers in this list (Electra, RKV-Wee and 727) have could not be differentiated significantly in single blind, unlike the last amp in this list (SRM 007T) that ended in last position  (and far) http://www.head-fi.org/t/681814/amplifiers-shootout-for-stax-009-eddie-current-electra-audiovalve-rkv-wooaudio-wee-stax-srm727-srm007t2).