COMPARISONS: Gustard A26 vs R26 Discrete DAC

[darcman]

@sajunky Reviewing the last couple of pages. You said some may not like R2R DACs. I had read that before so that was another reason why I went with an A26. I had ES9038s in a tube DAC and figured the A26 might be the better balance for me. I do listen to alot of acoustic music and female voices, so according to scripture an R26 may have been the way to go. I still however chose the A26 and glad I did. One thing you did say is if I try an R2R DAC, dont go for top of the line. I have alwasy had this thing in the back of my mind to get a Holo May, maybe because of all the stellar reviews. You are still right...what if I got a May and didnt really like it or I wasnt floored and let down because I was expecting a different sound. Maybe someday picking up a used R26 to compare would be the way to go, buy you know I wouldnt want to give up any detail. In the one review where it talks about an A26 being better at detail retrieval than even a Terminator Plus, I could seriously be let down. Ahh hell I am still glad I bought the A26, I saved a bunch of coin and its is a heck of a good dac. I guess I am losing sight of the fact of in that pursuit of our personal holy grail in anything we really have to fork out alot of extra cash for the last bit.

Everybody wants or would like to have the best DAC in the world for a couple grand, (sniffle sniffle) I guess its never going to happen. I still think the A26 for us mere mortal everyday working slob is a heck of a DAC. Ya sure there is better, but at what cost. My system with all my crap sounds pretty good. I was at a guys house who has north of 100k, maybe almost 150K into his system. Ya it sounds better than mine, maybe even alot better than mine...but the guy has very deep pockets, like all my pockets would fill 5% of one of his pockets lol. I am very thankfull for all the crap I have.

Just yesterday for a joke I responded to a dealers ad that has some 300K speakers for sale. I told him that I wanted to do a 7.1 system with all those speakers. I told him it was a joke and how I would even like to hear those speakers and said goodluck with the sale...nice speakers. He emailed back and said he was thinking of doing a 7.1 with the same speakers too, but then he remembered that he wasnt a billionaire.

 

[darcman]

people are going to tell me to shut up or s t f u soon lol. I hadnt played a CD at home for years now. I broke out my Rotel RCD971 and Robbie Robertsons (RIP) first solo CD anyways I used the digital coax out on the RCD971 and fed it into the A26...wow it sounded fn awesome.

 

[sajunky]

people are going to tell me to shut up or s t f u soon lol. I hadnt played a CD at home for years now. I broke out my Rotel RCD971 and Robbie Robertsons (RIP) first solo CD anyways I used the digital coax out on the RCD971 and fed it into the A26...wow it sounded fn awesome.

So you had an exposure to R2R.

Unfortunately this CD player sounded average, having very basic output stage. These opamps they used were terrible. I moded this one or a little brother RCD-951 with top quality opamps these days and installed power supply bypassing for a DAC chip and analogue stage. If a top model was 991, then it was 971, right. PC board was so poor quality, that tracks were damaging easily, soldering had to be done with special care. After installing a clock from LC Audio, this CD player started perform marvelously. Compared with Copland current basic model, it was a level up.

It was early 2000's, PCM63 R2R DAC chip was already out of production, but Rotel managed to get some old stock. Another interesting feature was a Pacific Micronics digital filter chip. I didn't like HDCD sound, but this filter was better quality than current offerings when playing standard CD's.

You bring a good memory. One word. When you connect with S/PDIF, you bypass internal DAC unfortunately, no R2R anymore, but you have a modern DAC and much better opamps than those in the CD player. There are very good indeed when used in A26. My reservation was to use opamps in R26, especially in NOS mode it requires better amplification.

You trust reviewers. I don't. You think that Holo May KXE is a raw model for the R2R DAC, it is not. It is marketing. Fortunately you didn't fall in this trap and you are happy with your purchase, enjoy.

 

[darcman]

I have absolutely zero desire to butcher the old tech RCD971 when it is a perfect transport to feed the A26. We dont even need to debate the merits of it as a CD player. I really dont give a shyte how and what mods you gave a RCD951...wow you are my hero lol. My observations were the RCD971 transport A26 combo sounded pretty dam good..no debate needed.

It sounds like you have real axe to grind when it comes to the Holo May and reviews. Its like reading reviews on Amazon, you have to how to let them guide you. There are Amazon reviews with the haters that go off on how the delivery driver was like Jim Carey in Ace Ventura Pet Detective and give whatever product a 0/5. I want to hear about the product itself not that it was delivered broken or late. Now I dont think I ever read a bad review about the Holo May. Does that mean that I would like it, no, but more than likely I would. The May KTE would be about 4x the price of an A26. I just wanted to try a different DAC without spending a small fortune. The A26 is a huge bang for your buck DAC. I probably would have liked the R26 too and I am sure I could have lived with it. I just happened to choose the A26 and am completely satisfied with it.

 

[sajunky]

It sounds like you have real axe to grind when it comes to the Holo May and reviews. Its like reading reviews on Amazon, you have to how to let them guide you.

Reviews on the Amazon are generally positive. If a product is criticised on the Amazon, then something is wrong indeed.

 

[darcman]

So what DAC do you own anyways?...and was it delivered by the pet detective???

 

[sajunky]

So what DAC do you own anyways?...and was it delivered by the pet detective???

Audio GD DAC combo with headphone amplifier, Sennheiser HD 600. When looking for the replacement of RCD-971 I liked Denafrips Ares 2 the most. A price for Holo Spring 2L2 was much lower few years ago, so I could afford, but after half an hour it caused a strange mess in my brain, initially clean notes lost clarity, a sign of a fatigue. With Delta-Sigma DAC it usually comes after 10 minutes. I am a guy sensitive to some harmonic inconsistencies in the upper range, a reason I made a transition to digital very late. Rotel was first one I could accept and was an easy pick from a local dealership.

So, Ares 2 was my pick, but during a period of collecting money I got a local deal for the entry level second-hand Audio GD DAC. I never heard about this brand before, there is no commercials, but price was so low that I could sell it without loss and I knew R2R magic after tuning up the Rotel, so I took a risk.

So now you see why I made such advise to try something in a lower price range first to prevent costly exercise. And I didn't know at the moment that you already owned RCD-971, it would help pointing you in the right direction. I feel that you intend to blame me for something, maybe you are not happy from the purchase after all. In such case it is your fault of not informing us about your background.

 

[darcman]

what are you even blithering about. I have an old RCD971 to spin a disc. I dont even listen to CDs and havent for years. I just gave the RCD971 a try with the A26 just to see what it would sound like, I did it because it was there. You blithered on saying how it was shyte and how you modded some old rotel...I dont care. I am not asking for your help nor do I need your help. Like I said I am totally happy with the A26. I dont intend on buying any CD players or cassette Decks. I may try an R2R DAC someday, but it would be something more highend than an Ares 2. I would most likely be looking at a May, but maybe in a few years. The A26 is more than good enough for now.

 

[sajunky]

what are you even blithering about. I have an old RCD971 to spin a disc. I dont even listen to CDs and havent for years. I just gave the RCD971 a try with the A26 just to see what it would sound like, I did it because it was there. You blithered on saying how it was shyte and how you modded some old rotel...I dont care. I am not asking for your help nor do I need your help. Like I said I am totally happy with the A26. I dont intend on buying any CD players or cassette Decks. I may try an R2R DAC someday, but it would be something more highend than an Ares 2. I would most likely be looking at a May, but maybe in a few years. The A26 is more than good enough for now.

Well, now I know for sure you are not happy with A26. A referal to Holo May as a high-end R2R solution is seen in your every post, but Holo Audio is made for the best measurements and those who like Delta-Sigma sound. You do, so go for it, but there is no reason to advertise on a Gustard thread. Thank you for bringing me good memories of Rotel RCD-971.

 

[Jake2]

Thank you very much. Although for the A26, perhaps the R26 would offer the same performance from a USB perspective (since you had no issues with your A26's USB).

Ya the USB works great, I would imagine it must be the same for the R26.

To be fair I reckon most DACs would work great via USB when fed by a high-end USB reclocker like the USD3k+ Innuous Phoenix. @darcman - appreciate you've pointed this out a few times, but not sure if @Vandal appreciates quite how much an effect it almost certainly has.

USB direct from my Mac Mini to the R26 is no good at all - thin and harsh. USB reclockers /DDCs like the SU6, U18 and Holo Titanis improve things a lot*, no question - better dynamics, more full sound, less glare etc... but so far the R26 internal LAN streamer/renderer + clean ethernet (see my sig) comfortably beats all those.

Edit - I should add this is with the Gothic Audio Semperfi Outsider pure silver USB cable which improved the sound significantly over an AliX 'hifi' USB cable I had prior.

 

[darcman]

Well, now I know for sure you are not happy with A26. A referal to Holo May as a high-end R2R solution is seen in your every post, but Holo Audio is made for the best measurements and those who like Delta-Sigma sound. You do, so go for it, but there is no reason to advertise on a Gustard thread. Thank you for bringing me good memories of Rotel RCD-971.

probably time for you to put down the pipe...this is a comparison between A26 and R26 thread, you dont own either. I am completely satisfied and totally 100% happy with the A26, I highly recommend it. You should vist the Ares 2 thread or Audio GD thread and help everyone there, thats where your experience is.

 

[darcman]

To be fair I reckon most DACs would work great via USB when fed by a high-end USB reclocker like the USD3k+ Innuous Phoenix. @darcman - appreciate you've pointed this out a few times, but not sure if @Vandal appreciates quite how much an effect it almost certainly has.

USB direct from my Mac Mini to the R26 is no good at all - thin and harsh. USB reclockers /DDCs like the SU6, U18 and Holo Titanis improve things a lot*, no question - better dynamics, more full sound, less glare etc... but so far the R26 internal LAN streamer/renderer + clean ethernet (see my sig) comfortably beats all those.

Edit - I should add this is with the Gothic Audio Semperfi Outsider pure silver USB cable which improved the sound significantly over an AliX 'hifi' USB cable I had prior.

My experience was the opposite. I hooked up the A26 via the Innuos Phoenix I already owned. Why would I not use the Phoenix.. The USB sounded awesome, I will continue to use the USB. I tried to use the LAN, but it wasnt near as good. In my system the USB is noticably better, its not even close. I should point out my pc is a NUC12i7 with 2TB M.2 and 4TB SSD in an Akasa Turing fanless case with an external Keces P8 linear power. I also have a couple of USB cables, one which is ok called The Semperfi Outsider and the other is a really good Stealth Audio USB select tunable version. I just use local files via my ultra expensive USB chain, it really does sound excellent. The lan was ok, but I guess that is system dependent.

 

[Jake2]

My experience was the opposite. I hooked up the A26 via the Innuos Phoenix I already owned. Why would I not use the Phoenix.. The USB sounded awesome, I will continue to use the USB. I tried to use the LAN, but it wasnt near as good. In my system the USB is noticably better, its not even close. I should point out my pc is a NUC12i7 with 2TB M.2 and 4TB SSD in an Akasa Turing fanless case with an external Keces P8 linear power. I also have a couple of USB cables, one which is ok called The Semperfi Outsider and the other is a really good Stealth Audio USB select tunable version. I just use local files via my ultra expensive USB chain, it really does sound excellent. The lan was ok, but I guess that is system dependent.

You totally should use the Phoenix and so would I, wasn't suggesting otherwise. I don't doubt it would comfortably better the LAN input (which was my opening statement in my earlier post re HQ USB sources/DDCs beyond those I'd heard), I'm sure it's superb. Cheers for the further system info all of what hopefully helps @Vandal weigh our experiences relative to his likely setup, incl budget for the upstream digital chain. Interesting re the USB cables, another data point thanks. I have a Mac Mini with a few tweaks running Room/HQP for streaming, also more modest than your server.

 

[Jake2]

Ok, I just looked up your tunable USB cable... damn. I now fully get what you mean by ultra expensive USB chain.

 

[darcman]

Ok, I just looked up your tunable USB cable... damn. I now fully get what you mean by ultra expensive USB chain.

I am not a millionaire and I didnt buy the Stealth Audio USB cable new. A really nice wealthy audiophile that I know sold me the Stealth USB cable for considerably less than the new price otherwise I wouldnt have it. I bought the Innuos Phoenix a couple/few years ago used. I used USB and no desire to go I²S, plus my dac didnt have I²S anyways. The Innuos Phoenix is a crazy expensive device, I paid more for it used than the price of a new A26. If you are using USB there probably isnt a better USB decrapifier solution.

If a person buys an A26 or R26, I dont think I would recommend getting a Phoenix. The Phoenix sounds excellent, even awesome, but they are bloody expensive. If you wanted to improve the sound of USB, there are other solutions. Like you say there are all kinds of DDCs. You have to weigh all the costs of the DACs and dvices, you could consider more expensive DACs. I still think for the money and period the A26 R26 are pretty dam good. My A26 combo sounds fantastic. I would have to spend a fair bit of cash to improve on it.

I would whole heartedly recommend the Gustards. Even if you planned on USB only I would still recommend them. If you wanted to improve the USB, you dont have to get a Phoenix. I used to own a Ifi iGalvanic3.0, they only cost a few hundred and really help the USB. There may be other DACs that sound better with USB, I dont know which they are though. I do know as far as DACs the A26 or R26 are excellent. Maybe I will upgrade someday, but for now all my crap sounds so good I have no desire to. I do wonder what an R26 would sound like in my system. If the R26 gave me a bigger soundfield that of course would be welcomed. If I lost some detail, I wouldnt like that.